The Continuity of Days Gone By

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by ryan123450, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had a question: would Starfleet: Year One, Federation, and Crossover be consistent or compatible with this loose continuity, and if so, where would they fit?
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, most of the '80s continuity predates the TNG era, and indeed it was the arrival of TNG that blew it out of the water as the show established its own incompatible versions of things. So given that TNG itself is not compatible with the '80s continuity, it doesn't seem likely that Federation or Crossover could be. As for S:YO, it's based on the TNG-era idea that the UFP was founded in 2161, which doesn't mesh with the Spaceflight Chronology dating used in books like The Final Reflection and Final Frontier.

    However, as far as I know, there's nothing about Crosover that isn't still compatible with the current book continuity. I count it as part of that continuity myself, though I haven't re-read it in years and I'm not sure if something has come along to contradict it since then. The only discrepancy I'm aware of is that it has a Galaxy-class starship named Intrepid, which is inconsistent with the existence of a distinct Intrepid class (to which Voyager belongs) around the same time. But I just disregard the Galaxy-class reference and assume it's the class-namer Intrepid (most likely NCC-74600).
     
  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok. Thanks for the answer.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^By the way, this is off-topic, but I keep wondering about that line in your signature, "Ze director's cut is ze film you saw in ze theater." I wonder where that's from, because it's certainly not true, at least not in Hollywood. In the Hollywood system, studios, not directors, get the final cut on movies, so that the theatrical version is often different from what the director wanted -- which is the whole reason that director's-cut DVDs exist at all, and the reason the "Alan Smithee" credit exists, for situations where directors take their names off a film to protest changes made to it against their will.
     
  5. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would say that Starfleet: Year One fits better in continuity than all of Star Trek: Enterprise, while Federation is a fun read, and it's surprising that it was put out so close to Star Trek: First Contact (the hardcover came out in 94, then the paperback followed in 95, then the movie hit in 96), but it doesn't really fit any where any more.
     
  6. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    How is it surprising? The writers of "First Contact" would have been almost oblivious to the existence of "Federation". Who knows, maybe mention of Cochrane around the traps got the movie team thinking?
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Very unlikely. If the filmmakers had known a book had just done something with the character, it would've been more likely to discourage them from using a similar idea, if anything. And it's not like there haven't been multiple other instances of the novelists and the show staff coming up with similar ideas close together. Surak's Soul and "The Seventh" come to mind, for example, or Seven of Nine and "Infinite Regress."
     
  8. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I remember the Reeves-Stevens mentioning in the interview for their Signature Edition book that they had, back around 1985/86, before TNG was announced, proposed a story that would've had Kirk and crew travelling a hundred years into the future, but the proposal wasn't approved because of TNG. But then, about a decade later a book by the same team gets published that does something similar, but is not rejected by Paramount, even though a new movie based on a similar idea is about to hit in the same amount of time.
     
  9. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    It's all a matter of timing. The deal with "Federation" was that crossovers in the tie-ins were being actively discouraged at the time, but the storyline was such that the two Enterprise crews never met, so it got approved.

    DC Fontana's novel, "Vulcan's Glory" was being written about the same time as rumours/factoids of the storyline of ST V, then in pre-production, were being released. Roddenberry and Fontana were being asked to comment publicly on the "Spock has an older brother?" concept and it seemed they were displeased that DC's old TOS memos about the importance of Spock not suddenly having siblings in TOS episodes carried no weight with Shatner & Loughery. (They'd probably never read them.)

    But "Vulcan's Glory" has a line, from Amanda, IIRC, where Spock is called "the only son of Sarek". Years later, I asked DC about whether this was a deliberate stab at the then-not-yet-onscreen ST V storyline with Sybok and she smiled cheekily and said, "I'm glad you noticed."

    Had the book been commissioned after ST V was out, that line would have been edited out.

    But... it was possibly also because David Dvorkin's "Timetrap" was already in train. That one had Kirk apparently timeslipped into a future where the Klingons were the UFP's allies, IIRC, and it came out in June 1988. I recall, when reading it, that I'd hoped Dvorkin had been able to slip in a few TNG-type references, but there were none.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not necessarily. Sybok was disowned, after all, so officially he was no longer counted as a son of Sarek. Spock was the only one who had legal or familial recognition as a son after that point, and many people (including Kirk and McCoy) were unaware that Sarek had ever had another son.


    But because of the nature of the setup, there couldn't have been any.
    There was no actual time travel, just 23rd-century Klingons faking the 24th century to trick Kirk into revealing strategic information -- a ploy used from time to time in Mission: Impossible and spy movies. So the Klingons who faked the future would've had no way of knowing what the actual future would be like, and thus any actual TNG references would've been impossible.
     
  11. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't there a comment that in the future, a Klingon served on the Enterprise? Workable as both something the plotters would say, and sufficient to fool the readers.
     
  12. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure how Moore and Braga glommed onto Cochrane as a character for First Contact after they decided against the Renaissance-set story with Leonardo da Vinci. However, we do know that Braga had no idea who Cochrane was and thought that Cochrane could be Picard's love interest. :)
     
  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. ;)
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You know, I just now realized that I left Enterprise: The First Adventure off my list of the '80s novelverse. I did mention in my preliminary list that it might count, but said that I couldn't remember any cross-references that would connect it. Now I realize there is one: it introduced the names George and Winona for Kirk's parents, which were then reused in Final Frontier and Best Destiny, which are on the current version of the '80s-verse list. (It also established the name Jocelyn for McCoy's ex-wife, which has been used in numerous other books, though I'm not sure if any of them are on the '80s-verse list. And I could swear the "Admiral Noguchi" mentioned in E:TFA was mentioned in other books as well, but I can't find any evidence of that online.)

    That makes four books I've added to the list since it was last edited, and it's now closed to editing, so I suppose I should post my current, revised list:

    Before TOS:
    2170s: The Final Reflection (body)
    2183: Final Frontier (body)
    2188: Best Destiny (flashbacks)
    c. 2204: Enterprise: The First Adventure

    During TOS (c. 2207-10):
    Final Frontier (frame) (just after "City on the Edge")
    The Vulcan Academy Murders and The IDIC Epidemic (just before "A Private Little War")

    After TOS/2nd 5-year mission:
    Prime Directive (early year 5 of mission)
    Yesterday's Son (2 years after "All Our Yesterdays," so late year 5)
    Uhura's Song
    Shadow Lord
    The Wounded Sky
    My Enemy, My Ally
    The Abode of Life
    Mindshadow
    Crisis on Centaurus
    Demons
    Chain of Attack
    The Final Nexus
    Dreams of the Raven
    Bloodthirst
    How Much for Just the Planet?
    Memory Prime
    Doctor's Orders
    Dreadnought!
    Battlestations!
    Corona
    The Entropy Effect
    The Romulan Way
    (8 years after "Enterprise Incident")
    The Final Reflection (frame) (10 years after “Errand of Mercy”)

    Interim period:
    The Lost Years

    Movie era:
    Spock's World (shortly after TMP)
    Rules of Engagement
    The Pandora Principle
    (just after Saavik enters Academy)
    Dwellers in the Crucible (during Saavik's time at Academy)
    Deep Domain (Kirk returns to Admiralty)
    Strangers from the Sky (frame)
    Time for Yesterday (shortly pre-TWOK)
    TWOK, TSFS, TVH (McIntyre novelizations)
    Music of the Spheres (after TVH)
    Best Destiny (just after TUC)


    My placement of E:TFA in c. 2204 is based on Kirk being slightly under 30 in the novel. That would put it four-plus years before "The Deadly Years," which by SFC dating (at least the version on Memory Beta) would be in mid- to late 2208.
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hey, Christopher. Do the Rihannsu novels Swordhunt and Honor Blade, as originally published, fit into this older continuity, and, if so, where would they fit?
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    As I discussed before, I made this list to reflect the continuity as it would've been seen in the '80s, before TNG came along and changed things. The idea was to offer a glimpse at a period of history, to try to codify an old interpretation of Trek continuity which has since been superseded.

    Swordhunt and The Empty Chair came later and retconned some TNG-era ideas into the Duaneverse, so they represent a different era's take on the continuity. After all, the revised versions of the earlier novels as found in The Bloodwing Voyages retcon them to be post-TMP rather than in the conjectural "second five-year mission" implied to exist in the original version of the books. Swordhunt claims to begin two months after The Romulan Way, but is also after Spock's World, so that definitely conflicts with the '80s version of the continuity I tried to reconstruct above.
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Ok. Thanks for the answer.
     

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