The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by DigificWriter, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Enterprise scenes from TATV were indifferentiable from every other scene in the series.

    In Pathfinder, when Barclay was playing about with holograms of what they imagined Voyager might look like... They got it wrong.
     
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's all good.

    I've taken a break from watching YoH P2 - mainly because I'm tired and need to get some sleep - but wanted to address the perceived 'discontinuity' between Before and After and the events of the YoH 2-parter of the crew apparently not having any knowledge of the Krenim despite Kes having promised to write a report on the things she learned about them:

    Given that we ARE dealing with a story about messing with time, it's really not unfeasible to infer that, in the 'here and now' in which Voyager encountered the Krenim, Kes never made good on her promise for whatever reason or else the events of Before and After were erased from history.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Krenim say that while they are outside time that they do not age, and that they have been making MANY changes to the timeline for the last 200 years. Considering he's still trying to save his wife, that means that Annorax is hovering over the same year while making changes for the last 200 year son his ship floating outside of time. In every timeline that Kes warned Janeway not to engage with the Krenim, Annorax was not engaged either, and he reset time again. He could have fired his weapon 100s, or maybe even thousands of times. If they don't stop Annorax, they don't stop Annorax and they forget everything and begin at the beginning again.

    We missed the first %99.5 of the story.
     
  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since time changed the instant Voyager was impacted by the first and second temporal shockwaves, it doesn't seem like a stretch to infer or assume that history was retroactively affected by the first shockwave's impact so that Kes' report wasn't written or she never experienced the events of Before and After in the first place, which was the point I was trying to get at.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I know. I agree.

    I was explaining "how".

    Also that it probably wasn't the first displacement wave we saw on camera.

    It was 700 displacement waves earlier.
     
  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Ok. I wasn't sure, so I figured I'd clarify my point just in case. :)

    BTW, my 'personal canon' is that Kes simply didn't write her report and Janeway never pressed her about doing it.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Even if the report wasn't written, they all had a discussion that used the word "Krenim" more than once.

    Exactly how much rum does Janeway put in her coffee?
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Before and After" got retconned out of existence as soon as Kes left the ship and became an energy being. Because of that, she never lived her life on Voyager including the Krenim encounters.

    Notice how Seven was in Kes' place in getting the reading of the Chroniton Warhead? It was to show how Kes' role in the story now never happened.

    They just didn't make it clear enough.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All things being equal, what's more likely.... that they deliberately decided that all of Kes' experiences in Before and After magically disappeared after the Gift somehow, despite how many times Trek's engaged in time travel without memory loss on anyone's part, and deliberately decided not to mention or even hint at this.... or they just couldn't be bothered to look over their own episodes for important details like this? I think we all know the answer. ;)
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In which case Neelix's Ocampan lung would have vanished and he would have died.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They're called Parallel timelines.

    In Before and After, all of her new adventures downstream in the past made her old adventures in the future more impossible because the crew of Voyager never saw her coming or never expected her to be arriving despite in their own pasts encountering Kes in her personal future that they should have already met her, and they should have had a biotemporal chamber waiting for her.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    When they were doing the final rewrite to incorporate Seven, they probably just referenced the "Before and After" scene for the torpedo's frequency and rewrote Kes' dialogue for Seven. And Star Trek often suggests that trips into the future are only one possible future.

    More like Irish whiskey would be my guess.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Definitely whiskey.
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No wonder she flips out during the weeks they're roughing it again and power is scarce.
     
  15. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    There is a difference between uncharted space and unvisited space. For all we know there could be a dozen systems within a few weeks travel of say stabase 11 that had never been visited by a manned ship.

    There is also of course the simple fact that's it's primary mission could have been the whole seek out new life...... but that wouldn't mean that Starfleet couldn't give it another mission i.e. Disaster relief.

    And no it doesn't violate the premise, simple because all it states is that the Enterprise is on a five year mission to seek out new life and new civilisations....

    Back in the days of sail, I might be mistaken but didn't those ships that where exploring the oceans of Earth sometimes call in at known places?
     
  16. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Voyages were about imperialism: rather than pure discovery, voyages of exploration were concerned with finding new routes to known production centers, controlling them, and securing the state's claim to them by establishing a presence in territories along those routes. Science and culture were secondary, at best.
     
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And any time they went to a colony world or a starbase or visited some area that sent out a message, they violated that mission.

    If TOS can get away with it, I don't see why VOY should be endlessly critiqued because they didn't slavishly stick to their premise with no wriggle room whatsoever.

    Especially seeing how VOY's premise wasn't a sustainable one in the first place.
     
  18. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    If your interpretation of TOS' premise held, Kirk would have been court martialed, had the Starfleet admiralty decided to.

    If Voyager's premise held, the ship would have been, at times, dead in space. No one's decisions or actions, including Janeway's, would have made a difference.

    The former can be dealt within internally to the story. The latter strains credibility.
     
  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Enterprise is really the only one of the three "To Boldly Go" Trek series that could actually live up to its premise because it was set in a period of time where space truly was "the Final Frontier". TOS and TNG couldn't truly fulfill the tenets of that premise because there was actually very little space that hadn't been explored by the periods of time in which they were set.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah forbid we have stories about adapting under pressure, establishing relationships with new cultures to get the supplies or repairs they need. That would've been interesting.
     

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