Discussion in 'Voyager' started by DigificWriter, Oct 1, 2013.
Erm, I did say they were some that accepted it for what it was. AKA liked it.
I've seen and read through the original Voyager Series Bible, and can therefore attest that the series was intended to have been much more like DS9 (i.e. heavily serialized) than it ended up being, and was initially disappointed that things changed so drastically and dramatically from what was originally intended. Now, however, I've come to appreciate the series for what it was and the level of continuity and serialization that it does bring to the table rather than bemoaning it for it ending up as something different than what it was originally intended to be.
It would've been nice to see the series remain true to its original premise as stated in the Series Bible, but it ended up being a great series even with the changes that were made that resulted in it being more of a hybrid of TNG and DS9 than the heavily serialized DS9-esque series it was originally going to be.
Did I tell you about how Seska was retroactively introduced into continuity?
Berman got their season one scripts back from their writers at basically the same time but when they received State of Flux, it was like the best ever... They like marvelled!
"Wow! Gosh, isn't a pity that we didn't tell anyone else to write about Seska before now? there's like 8 episodes before State of Flux she could be skeeving around making trouble but... hey? why don't we just write her in? I mean we are in charge. We can do anything we damn well want!"
Just think about this.
If Voyagers producers were willing to mutilate several locked "original" scripts, to make later episodes make more sense once, then they could in theory do it again.
They could have tucked Lindsay Ballard into 10 episodes before Ashes to Ashes (maybe Fairhaven?) or put Jetal in 5 or 10 episodes before Latent Image (in Once Upon a time... Fuck, are we positive that Ensign Jetal wasn't just another rewrite on his program because the Doctor couldn't handle Sam Wildman dying?)?
But they didn't.
Voyager had almost no foreshadowing (Before and After) and even when they did they cocked it up (Jenny, you're fired. Pack your bags and bugger off.) even though Foreshadowing is piss easy when you're writing 8 to ten scripts at the same time before the actors even get back from break.
Here's why... A multi-episode contract costs more per episode to retain an actor, and it probably fracks with their per episode budget too if they don't get creative.
This isn't a argument/debate about how well they handled the inclusion of continuity and serialization given the series' more episodic nature. It's about debunking the perception that there was no continuity or serialization at all.
Reading through some of the behind-the-scenes info on Memory Alpha does give you the impression that they were 'winging it' at times (more often than they probably should have), but, all things considered, the level of continuity and serialization that they achieved by 'winging it' is actually quite strong.
It is full of charms. That's how I find it, a delightful series. The original vision may have been different, and may have been quashed by whoever for whatever reasons but the actors brought a joie de vivre to their roles that has attracted a devoted Voyager fan following.
I don't need it to be DS9 or NuBSG because I already have DS9 and NuBSG
I think this is a great way of describing it.
Your hypothesis is that with whatever unit you measure "continuity' with, is that Voyager had a greater quantity than zero?
I repeat, sorta, that Zero continuity is an anthology show like Twilight Zone.
That Kate Mulgrew played the same character almost (Workforce, The Killing Game, 11:59) every week, shows a greater amount of continuity every week than zero.
The unit of measurement for continuity is called an "Anal".
What happened in "Pale Moonlight" had no impact on his character when it should've defined him for the rest of the show.
No there wasn't.
The war itself allowed for that kind of storytelling. Voyager couldn't do a war arc so that stuff couldn't have happened. It's part of how DS9 had a more workable premise than VOY.
VOY's premise was never sustainable in the first place. It wasn't even a real premise. DS9 was able to use what TOS and TNG had built up before it to do it's big war arc, VOY had nothing to work with.
VOY's "Always on the move" premise meant very little would permanently affect the ship in the first place. They had no "Tapestry" to add to.
Comparing Voyager to DS9 in terms of how the concepts of serialization and continuity were handled and manifest is like comparing Bones to Battlestar Galactica; it's not an accurate 1-to-1 comparison because you are dealing with two very different shows format-wise. Voyager would have been a fundamentally different show if it had been handled the way it was originally intended to be, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with what we got.
Here's something weird ass that I've only see written about but it's super weird ass.
They took season one of Ally McBeal, and cut each forty minute Drama into a 20 sitcom by removing everything at the office or the courthouse and retitled the series as "Ally". This was not a fan edit. It really happened on real TV in the late 90s.
DS9 and Voyager had exactly as much continuity as their producers wanted them to have, but since both shows were set in the same universe (St Elsewhere?) they should have each be made in and with respect to each others ability and failings.
I doubt either show failed to meet the design specs of their producer, even if their audiences might have been a revolting mob spoiling for a fight because of some slight.
DS9 is my favorite of the five Star Trek series, but Voyager is a close second, and I've come to appreciate the latter for what it was as opposed to what it was supposed to have been at the time of its conception.
I also rather like that both series ended up being different from one another because it plays to the diversity of the franchise. Fans who want tight, heavily serialized storytelling can get it in the form of DS9; fans that want a more episodic experience can get it in the form of TOS and TNG; and fans that want a hybrid of episodic adventure and tight serialization can get it in the form of Voyager and Enterprise.
I've just finished the first 'half' of Voyager Season 1 as produced (Caretaker through State of Flux), and the progression and continuity in those 10 episodes is both readily apparent and very consistent, and I honestly feel that they really needed to have been aired in the same order in which they were shot in order to get the most from them.
Digific is my new hero.
Some people might disagree with me, but Voyager actually did a better job in many cases with the episodic elements of its format than TNG and TOS did, and also managed to strike a fairly strong balance between those elements and the continuity and serialization elements that it utilized.
Not at all, "In the Pale Moonlight" was an effect not a cause . The war happened(cause) which led to "In the Pale Moonlight"(effect)
Yes there was
Nog had plenty of development before the war started. And VOY could have done a war arc.
VOY was a FICTIONAL TV show, it had literally everything to work with and was only limited by the writers imaginations.
VOY consistently ignored it's "Always on the move" premise so that excuse doesn't hold any water. But even if they had stuck to the "Always on the move" premise they still had 150 people on the ship so they had plenty to work with.
Sometimes.. they parked.
In the pale moon light was amazing.
After tyat, it did mean that there were always Romulans and Romulan warships at the station becuase of the alliance withe the star empire, which did change the fabric of a lot of later stories...
but was there a guilty/sorry Sisko in Aftermath, or Sisko again who wanted to make lightning strike twice by breaking all the rules again to help out the war effort again becuase it was so easy the first time?
620 was an Odo Loves Kira episode.
621 was the Pagh wraiths vs Prophets story, in which Odo should have played a bigger part if he just hooked up with Kira. Sisko almost lost his son to all thos God drama.
622 jake and Nog behind enemy lines.
623 Ferengi sex change
624 obrien family drama
625 UNiform is family, an ensemble story... But Sisko is more caught up with Cassady moving in .
626 Dukat pwns the Prophets, Sisko is broken.
So his Garrak like behaviour in in the pale Moonlight had no consequences for his character for the rest of the season... but just imagine the story, if at some point that the Romulans had found out?
In "The Gift" Kes throws VOY past Borg space(About 10 years) and yet the Borg keep showing up with no explanation. That happens with several species during the series. "Always on the move" means that VOY shouldn't keep running into the same species.
^ Seriously? You're going to complain that a space-born race with highly advanced technology wasn't 'confined' to its 'home territory'?
That argument doesn't hold any water whatsoever and, quite frankly, is incredibly silly. The Borg and Voyager kept encountering each other because the Borg kept following Voyager to a certain degree.
The Borg. Are everywhere.
The Borg can circumnavigate the galaxy in a couple hours at transwarp speed.
To be able to navigate while circumnavigating at that speed, any single cube should be able to "see" at least 3/4's of the galaxy with perfect clarity, but if they network several cubes through the transwarp network of hubs and conduits and transwarp radio relay boosters, well...
The Borg always knew where Voyager was but they didn't give a shit.
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