The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by DigificWriter, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    I'm really glad I A) asked the question about watching TUC before Flashback and B) decided to act on the recommendations I got to go ahead and watch both. It was a lot of fun seeing the movie and then seeing a variation of its events play out immediately thereafter.

    The biggest difference between TUC and the Flashback recreations of parts of its events that I noticed is Janice Rand's rank, but I would personally classify the discrepancy as being a retcon rather than a continuity error.

    Growing up, I was never that fond of the TOS crew despite having watched the first four movies, but things like Star Trek Vanguard and the two Abrams movies have since given me a new appreciation for them that I have to admit greatly enhanced my enjoyment of both TUC and Flashback.

    As an aside, I'm now ready to watch The Chute, which means that I've made it to Season3 as its listed on Amazon Instant Video (Basics P2, Sacred Ground, False Profits, and Flashback are listed under Season 2, albeit in their S3 broadcast order).
     
  2. BruntFCA

    BruntFCA Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    A Mile High
    Did you notice how Valtane dies in "Flashback" but is alive and well at the end of TUC?
     
  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    ^ That's way too nebulous to actually be considered an error, IMO, and even if it is one, it's ultimately inconsequential.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    A man coming back from the dead with no explanation is inconsequential? Either the writers were just too lazy to notice or they thought we were too stupid to notice. Was it really hard to cast a new guy as Tuvok's coworker that dies instead of Night of the Living Redshirts?

    At least in ID they lamely tried to say "superblood" cured Kirk's death.
     
  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    ^ When you consider that there is a point in TUC where Vultane appears to be in two different places at once (thank you, Memory Alpha) and that the shot of the Excelsior crew is a very minor footnote of TUC's ending, any discontinuity that may or may not exist with regards to Vultane IS ultimately inconsequential.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Valtane. No U. Does it matter to the plot? Not really. But it is sloppy writing at best. At worst they just figure we're too dumb to notice details like that and just threw in a face we might recognize.
     
  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Valtane appeared to die in "Flashback" and then was revived after they got out of there. The virus jumped to Tuvok because it assumed he was totally dead and revival was not possible.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Tuvok's memory of events may be suspect anyway, as he was under the effect of the virus.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Other way around.

    30 years without the virus. 80 years with the virus. 4 years later he's got a degenerative mental illness. It's possible that the syphilis was actually keeping his bain in working order when it should have packed up years earlier.

    His cosmic clap turned out to actually be very useful brain steroids.
     
  10. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Upto a point, the writers choose to re-use Valatine it was a conscious decison, no doubt to use a character with which some of the audiance might be familiar with. It's insulting to the audiance to think that they wouldn't pick up on the fact that he was seemingly killed yet alive and well at the end of TUC. It's sloppy writting, isn't one of the rules of writting be consistant with events, it clearly wasn't consistant with TUC.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't "Flashback" imply that the events seen in the episode that took place days after Praxis exploded rather than weeks as implied in TUC?

    Yet another inconsistancy (If I'm right)?
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Tuvok delivered the teacup to Sulu in Flashback that was destroyed when the ship was rocked by the explosion of Praxis.
     
  12. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    I'm still not convinced that Voyager is a 'Serialized Procedural'.

    The 'Procedural' aspect of a cop show or legal drama is obvious. It's the minutea of the job, showing the police going methodically through investigating a case or a legal team moving with their client from discovering what the issue is to reaching a negotiated resolution (or, if it comes down to it, fighting the battle in court).

    The description 'Procedural' implies a narrative focus on such minutea is essential. What makes any old detective show a 'Procedural' is the extent to which the writers have done their research and incorporate that minutea into the drama.

    Unless we count the Technobabble, as far as I know Star Trek could not truly be described as a 'Procedural' in any of it's various formats.
     
  13. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    I've always been satisfied with single episode stories (save for two-parters and such). I've got a life (such as it is :lol: ), and I don't have the time or patience to sit through seasons-long, complex stories, especially when so many I hear about seem to end in disappointment or dissatisfaction.

    I keep hearing how modern audiences "want" this sort of thing nowadays...but when it's all that seems to be offered, how can I "expect" anything else? When I go to McDonalds, I "want" hamburgers, because I know that's what they have. I wouldn't be adverse to find they also had, say, crab cakes. I could always go to Burger King (i.e. change channels), but...what do you know? More burgers! :rolleyes:

    Conventional wisdom is the engine that drives the train, and producers are going to make series they think we "want", but when nothing else is offered, of course we're going to "want" it! "Expect" doesn't necessarily mean "want".

    I fully "expect" to be in the minority on this... :lol:
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    Don't worry, you are not alone. :D I too find serial television somewhat passe these days. I think there was a period where it became fashionable, and heaven only knows I thought things like Buffy, The X-Files and The West Wing were the cleverest thing on TV in their day; I thought that serial television allowed so much more scope that regular old jeopardy-of-the-week plotting. But on some level, I've changed my mind about that. I think these days I might actually prefer the lack of complexity that pure episodic television provides. Serial television requires a lot more..... 'commitment'. :alienblush:
     
  15. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Thanks, Lance! I don't feel so alone now! :)

    I keep waiting for reality tv to die out, but at this point I think tv will die first. Hmm, maybe Data was right, after all: 2040 isn't really all that far away! :wtf:
     
  16. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Same here. If I wanted to watch serialized television, I would have been watching daytime soap operas for the last 50 years. Mini-series like Roots are about all I have the patience to sit through. I equate movies to novels, and television episodes to short stories. A serialized 12 to 24 episode television show for 5 years would be the equivalent of reading all of Dickens' works.

    ETA: About the only other time serialized stories worked for me were the old Saturday matinee chapterplays from Republic and other studios, and old Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    I just finished The Chute and have an observation that, while not specifically continuity-related per se, is still worth mentioning: watching that episode after having watched The Undiscovered Country and Flashback makes its events resonate deeper because a lot of parallels can be drawn between what Kirk and McCoy experience in Rura Penthe and what Tom and Harry go throw in the Akritirian 'Chute Prison'.
     
  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    There is room for multiple types of storytelling on TV, we can of course deabte one type is better than the rest. But that really isn't the point, the point is did they use the right one. Sure shows like L&O for example we would expect to be rather episodic. But for example a show like VOY which had an overall narrative (the journey home) so it's not unreasonable for the audiance (or a portion of it) to expect a tighter focus on continuity, serialistion and consistancy of charactersation/themes.
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    The Fugitive also had an overall narrative, that didn't stop it from being mostly an episodic show as well until near the end.
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    What parallels are there other than two guys in prison?