The Continuity and Serialization of Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by DigificWriter, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Considering there was between 3 and 10 episodes inbetween some of Cullah's stories, where the stories in those gaps never mentioned Cullah, or the continuing Kazon threat and could have aired at any point in the seven year run, if you could imagine that they would ever dare film an episode in season 6 without it Jeri Ryan wandering around in the back ground poking her chest out... Meh?
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    ^You may insert the villain-of-the-season into Cullah's place, if you like. However, his appearances are, for some reason, being counted as evidence of deeper development within the series without consideration to the quality thereof. Indeed, the reappearances of holo-Seska, at best a residual of old conflicts, are being counted. Instead of simply counting the number of time writers kept their facts straight, there should be more evaluation of the effects of continuity and the process by which the general narrative becomes richer and more insightful.
     
  3. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    I always viewed Seska as the main recurring antagonist in the first two seasons. Cullah wasn't much of one, too often he came off as a really horrible leader that had no clue what to do. It was Seska that really pulled the strings.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Even Seska couldn't save Culluh from some of his more dumb moves.
     
  5. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    Who came up with the idea of Culluh being overtly sexist? Felt like a really cheap device because of the then novelty of Janeway being the female captain. My wild guess would be Jeri Taylor, given her Mary Sue approach to Janeway, so naturally the villain would have to be so dastardly evil that he also hates women. Oh no! Can Janeway defeat this chauvinist pig? That's why I could never take him seriously as an antagonist.

    It's hard to believe Michael Piller would have had all of this under his watch, after what he did in TNG and DS9. I do like his idea of the Kazon representing gangs, with the DQ having no government to put things in order so everything is anarchy. Too much executive meddling? We know what he had to deal with for INSURRECTION.
     
  6. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    That kind of ends up happening when you don't really have a plot for your show.
     
  7. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    I've never seen much of Bones, but I don't think The X-Files and Star Trek: Voyager are comparable in format.

    The X-Files alternated between episodes devoted to (a) a serialized narrative that spanned all nine seasons and (b) standalone episodes, with a strong sense of character continuity throughout. Star Trek: Voyager didn't have a series-long serial narrative of any substance. Enterprise, really, was much closer -- a mix of standalone episodes and a serial narrative (the temporal cold war) that was central to the series but only the direct focus of a few episodes a season.
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    That just lends more strength to Berman's stance that they should have waited until DS9 was finished to begin to do VOY. It would've given them the time they needed to iron out the conceptual flaws in the show, hire a new permanent writing staff and by then the Suits at Paramount would've been more willing to invest in a show that used greater serialization.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    It probably would've been better if they did wait.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    But would it have happened?
     
  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    DS9 was able to do a lot of the things that made it good because Berman's focus was mostly on VOY and the TNG movies. You take out VOY, would DS9 have been the same?
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Eventually they were waiting out Berman's 10 year long contract.

    The less work he did, the less they had to pay him for losing them money.
     
  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    ^Are you sure that Voyager (and later, Enterprise) wasn't instead life support for UPN?
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Berman was just as involved in DS9, it's just that Ira Behr and Ron Moore are whiners who needed a scapegoat.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    You think there was just "one" problem?
     
  16. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    I think DS9 had more leeway to do different things because (like TNG before it) it was a direct-to-syndication show. Voyager and ENT both were on a network, which I think is why it had more 'interference' from the suits almost from Day 1.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    That's like saying that if it wasn't for the rain, you wouldn't get wet in a storm.
     
  18. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    Certainly not. However, given the choice between Berman and UPN, I would pick Berman. As bad as his taste could be, he at least had a relationship with the writers that was at least constructive, so long as there was no studio interference.
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Berman wasn't that bad, I mean really listening to some of the stuff he said once he was no longer the Trek producer it seems like he understood the problems Modern Trek were starting to suffer from and might've done a better job of things without UPN breathing down his neck.
     
  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    Like with Brannon Braga, I've never really understood the mud that gets slung at Berman, and happen to really enjoy all 3 of the Star Trek series he helped create, with DS9 being my favorite.

    He's also responsible for co-developing and co-writing some of my favorite episodes from those three series and for co-writing my favorite of the Prime-Universe films, Insurrection.
     

Share This Page