The changelings

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by pimp, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. pimp

    pimp Commander Red Shirt

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    Hello everyone

    I have a question which i hope will be answered

    Why do all the changelings look like Odo if he based his looks on his Bajoren Doctor?????


    Thank You
     
  2. Navaros

    Navaros Commodore Commodore

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    There isn't really any good explanation for this. TPTB simply decided to dumb the show down so that LCD viewers wouldn't get 'confused' (:rolleyes:) by seeing changelings with different appearances. There is no in-show explanation that makes any sense. Some fans try to use the excuse "they were trying to make Odo feel more comfortable so they copied him", but really that makes no sense at all considering that they looked like Odo when he was nowhere around.

    Ultimately there is nothing that can be done with this point other than chalking it up to a major series fubar that detracts from the integrity of the show.
     
  3. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OK, total speculation coming here--but if I were going to explain this in a story, I'd say this: perhaps Changelings have a certain "default" humanoid form that is part of a sort of racial memory. (A form which, interestingly, resembles Salome Jens' OTHER Trek role...) Unskilled Changelings may automatically wind up in a form of this default mode when they first try to approximate humanoids. Odo and Laas would make sense under this explanation. As for the others...maybe that's how they think of themselves when choosing humanoid form. Maybe it's not humanity it occurs to them to approximate, but that first race that seeded the galaxy with all of the other humanoids. (The one that left the message in "The Chase".)

    Total personal theory, but I think it would at least work as a book/fanfic explanation.
     
  4. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know I'm going to make myself sound like a moron, but in that episode where Odo finds another Changeling, and he didn't have that same makeup, it took me a while to "get it" that another Changeling wouldn't look like Odo in the first place.
    Hey, I'm a fan. If if took me a couple of minutes to think about it and realize that making other Changelings look different made sense, imagine how hard it would be for the general audience to get it.
     
  5. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because they wanted Odo to feel at home so they altered their face to mimic his appearance.
     
  6. Meredith

    Meredith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was all just a big coincidence.
     
  7. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    [Jack O'Neill]Magnets.[/Jack O'Neill]
     
  8. ninetofive

    ninetofive Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Maybe the Founders are just slaves to trends. When they first saw Odo they thought "Man, that looks so cool". It's like, one guy starts wearing his hat backwards and pretty soon half the world's population is doing it (the half that can afford baseball caps and gets MTV that is).
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, the only time we see other Founders imitating Odo's looks is when they are with Odo. So the "they want to make Odo feel comfortable" theory really holds water rather well.

    That is, there is this one exception, but it's easily explained away. Namely, sure we see the Salome Jens Founder in her Odo-like guise even when there are only Dominion minions around. But we only see her in such guise in such environs after she has been infected with the S31 bioweapon. She probably is already feeling the first symptoms of the disease, and finds it painful to shapeshift, so she decides to hold on to a single shape most of the time. The Odo look is the one the minions are familiar with already, so it will be accepted with the minimum of explanations. Towards the end of the show, the Founder is probably stuck with that look, unable to shapeshift at all, and making all sorts of silly excuses that Weoyun easily sees through and even the Cardassian allies are beginning to suspect.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. ninetofive

    ninetofive Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I see. So in the Adversary when the male shapeshifter was fighting Odo, he none the less was trying to make him feel comfortable?
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Umm, he's trying to pretend he's Odo. I'd say the best way to do that would be to look like Odo usually does!

    That he got a bit sloppy about maintaining his exact shape when flinging himself at Odo cannot really be held against him. He did manage to hold onto the face and the hair, by and large, even if he let go of the uniform.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I've often wondered why their skills were always supposed to be so much better than Odo's. He had plenty of time to hone his appearance and since he could easily imitate other complex shapes it seems unrealistic that he never actually developed throughout the whole series.
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really think so - it's not a matter of time, it's a matter of stimulation and education. Let a kid be raised by wolves for as many years as you please, and he still won't learn to sing opera or paint realistic oil or write novels any better.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Then why did he appear so much more sophisticated in the 'future Odo' who had been shipwrecked? That was merely a matter of time.
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    But by that time, he had been stimulated and educated. "Children of Time" comes not only a great many years after "The Search", but also after Odo's to-Solid-and-back experience, and after many interactions with skilled Founders.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I was pointing out that your 'it's not a matter of time' comment was daft.
     
  17. SoM

    SoM Commander Red Shirt

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    Most of the "complex shapes" amounted to solid, unmoving stuff though - once he became a rock, or a metal frame, or a bag, he only had to hold the shape. Faces also have to move in certain ways - he could probably have made a human "mask", but it would have been revealed as such almost immediately outside of still photos/holos.

    Actually, I wonder why he never had surgery during his "solid" experience to look like a Bajoran (or human). Outside of the show, the DS9 companion made it clear that they thought he wouldn't come across as Odo any more if they lost "the face", but since the Founders left it that way as a punishment in-show...
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    But it wouldn't be. Without contact with the Founders, odds are that Odo would not have learned to shapeshift properly even if given centuries. He was stunned and delighted to learn what was possible for the likes of him in "The Search"; had he not shaken hands with a Founder, he would never even have dreamed of such things.

    Why would he have found any other face preferable to the one he had? He respectfully declined in "Apocalypse Rising" already, perhaps choosing to bear the intended shame with honor and courage, perhaps finding the whole idea of this being "intended shame" ridiculous to begin with.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Did he not turn himself into a flying hawk at one point? I would say that took a fairly high level of skill.
     
  20. ninetofive

    ninetofive Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Guys, I don't often say this, but it's a TV show. In real life, a shapeshifter who could perfecly imitate a mouse, hawk etc. would have no trouble producing a realistic face. Also in the 24th century an android could be made to look almost if not completely human ( skintone and eyecolour at least could be completely matched). But because it's a show these characters are deliberately made to look alien.