The Borg in Assimilation2

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Noddy, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    Being an avid fan of both Who and Trek, I personally feel that I can't just simply disregard this story. But neither can I ignore its flaws, which is why I seek ways by which to rationalize some of the odd things that happen. Namely, precisely how the two universes cross over. Do they merge to form a new hybrid reality, or is there a "bridge" between the two? And what happens at the end - are they still intertwined or what? The whole idea is too intriguing to just forget about, IMO.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't understand how accepting that a work of fiction is, in fact, fictional constitutes "disregarding" it. All stories are equally unreal. So it doesn't diminish one story if it's not part of the same continuity as a different story. Sure, it makes it speculative and hypothetical compared to the other stories in the series -- an "imaginary story" in DC Comics parlance -- but the "real" stories are themselves speculative and hypothetical compared to reality, so what difference does it really make? They're all just things that might have been; some of them are simply built around different "mights" than others. (As Alan Moore wrote, "This is an imaginary story -- aren't they all?")
     
  3. Blamo

    Blamo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As a big Doctor Who fan I've got to say no, it didn't sit well with me.

    Forgetting Nightmare of Silver, where technology has reached a point where even humans can blow up galaxies, the Cybermen aren't a huge threat to the galaxy. They were never meant to be, with their sole goal in life being survival.

    As threats go the Cybermen should have been on a technological level with the main alpha quadrant powers, but with far fewer numbers.

    The Daleks on the other hand would be a Borg level threat.
     
  4. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    ^When they first announced the crossover I was really hoping that they would use the Daleks. I was kind of disappointed when they said it was the Cybermen. I like the Cybermen, and I can see why they would pair them up with the Borg, but I still would have been more interested it if was the Daleks.
     
  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    IDW didn't license the rights to the Daleks. Plus, the Daleks add another chair to the approvals process table -- the Nation estate. Even if IDW had the rights to the Daleks, using the Daleks would have complicated the approvals process on this, which already went through two different studios.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Just imagine how complicated the approval process would have been if it featured Daleks and the Abramsverse. :eek:
     
  7. Andrew_Kearley

    Andrew_Kearley Captain Captain

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    The Daleks would have completely wiped the Borg out, of course.
     
  8. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    The big problem with having the Cybes in it for me is that they're too similar to the Borg - they should have had a distinctive DW element that was a contrast to the Borg. Or at least go a lot deeper into deconstructing the differences between the two.

    Ah, fuck it, y'all know I'd have had the Delgado Master in it...
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That doesn't seem likely. The Daleks pretty much have just one strategy -- zap everything -- and Borg generally adapt to weapons fire after 2-3 shots at most. I envision the Daleks futilely blasting away and screaming as the Borg close in on them -- and assimilate the Daleks. And then everyone's in trouble.

    "As-sim-i-late! As-sim-i-late!"
     
  10. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure how the Borg nanotubules would reach a Dalek mutant inside its travel machine. :)

    The Borg control one part of the Delta Quadrant. The Dalek Empire spans an entire galaxy. (Not Mutter's Spiral, obviously.) The Daleks win on sheer numbers.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The mistaken assumption there is that Borg nanoprobes only affect organic matter. They affect technology as well. (E.g. in VGR: "Drone," some of Seven's nanoprobes contaminated the Doctor's mobile emitter, which in turn extended tubules and assimilated the computer console on which it rested.) The travel machine could be assimilated first, and then turn on the mutant inside.
     
  12. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Correction- the Daleks in the field have one strategy, to find a way to zap everything. If they can't, they adapt and find a way. Then on a strategic level they are devious fuckers capable of thinking up pretty much anything it takes to get what they want.

    The first encounter between Daleks and Borg would probably go as you surmise, but the Daleks would then adapt their strategies. They're obsessed with racial purity, but when it comes to technology, you'd have an adaptivity race, and the Daleks can increase their numbers a lot more quickly, as well as being more militarily experienced.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^True. I wonder if we'd get a stalemate like the Dalek-Movellan war.
     
  14. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There was no Dalek-Movellan War. That was one of the Daleks' many schemes. :)

    However, yes, over the short-term, there would probably be a stalemale of sorts between the Daleks and the Borg, until the Daleks finally tired of the Borg pest and brought the full weight of their Empire to bear on the Delta Quadrant in Mutter's Spiral.
     
  15. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    On a grand strategic level, fleet vs fleet, the Daleks would eventually get pissed off and blow up the galaxy, if that's what it took. I mean, remember in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, they come up with a way to destroy the whole reality itself- the Borg have nothing on that.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    This is the problem of comparing forces from fictional universes with wildly different standards of physical plausibility. "Of course Voldemort could defeat the SS -- his Death Eaters could just cast Avada Kedavra on them all! The Nazis have nothing on that!"

    Plus you can arbitrarily pick the most powerful example of whichever side you want to win. The Daleks only tried to destroy reality once -- it stands to reason that at any other point in history, they lacked that capability, or weren't insane enough to use it. What if the Borg went up against the Daleks at a less advanced point in the latter's history?

    That's why this kind of comparison is so silly. You can fudge the rules and parameters however you want. Of course the real answer to "Who would win in a fight" is "Whoever the writer wants to win." Indeed, arguing that the side with technological superiority is bound to win is contrary to the rules of fiction. Generally the side that has the overwhelming advantage is the one that's doomed to defeat, because it's more exciting when the odds are stacked against the heroes. The Daleks have a galaxy-destroying army and the Doctor has a screwdriver. The Borg have conquered a quarter or more of the galaxy and make Federation technology look primitive in comparison to theirs. Yet it's still the underdogs who win, because they have the rules of drama on their side.
     
  17. zarkon

    zarkon Captain Captain

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    Pre timewar Daleks would get assimilated
    Post timewar Daleks wouldn't have much difficulty with the borg.

    I don't much see a problem with Whoverse humans beating the cybermen who in turn beat the borg. Whoverse humans are much more militarily inclined - all those "Great and Bountiful Human Empires". Q would have a field day taking them to trial!
     
  18. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't realize the rights to the Daleks were seperate from the rest of Dr. Who. I swore I'd seen the Daleks in the ads for some of the IDW comics.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    As a rule, British TV writers retain more ownership of their creations than American ones do. Pretty much any character or species created by Doctor Who by a freelancer rather than the show's own staff is the property of its creator. That's why Bob Baker was able to license the K-9 character to the makers of the unofficial Australian spinoff, which was able to use K-9 (and hire John Leeson to reprise his voice) but had to change his appearance (after a brief glimpse of the original) and could only make implicit allusions to anything else from Doctor Who.

    The catch is that Terry Nation and his estate have historically been more reluctant to license the Daleks than other DW writers have been. There were even a couple of times when they denied Doctor Who itself the right to the Daleks, which is why there were a couple of periods in the original series where years went by without a Dalek story. The Virgin New/Missing Adventures novels didn't have the rights to the Daleks either, at least not while I was reading them, so they were able to talk about the Daleks but not actually feature them.
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You may have, though I can't think of any appearances of Daleks in IDW ads off-hand.

    The most recent series of Doctor Who Classics went on an unexpected hiatus of several months length right as it was about to print "Nemesis of the Daleks." It eventually came out. I wonder if the Daleks were the reason. IDW, for instance, never reprinted the Abslom Daak stories.
     

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