The best Saavik?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by King Daniel Beyond, Jun 5, 2010.

?

Who was the best Saavik?

  1. Kirstie Alley

    80.5%
  2. Robin Curtis

    19.5%
  1. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    As PRESENTED in the finished films, she was, in effect, Vulcan. Therefore, logic alone dictates that Curtis' performance of the character was more precise, given our knowledge of the species.

    Or are you an anti-cannon dude? Big chests influence your interpretation of an actors interpretation, eh?;)
     
  2. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    "Beakman's Law."
    Apparently.:guffaw:
     
  3. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    EPIC AGREE!!:techman:
     
  4. StarshipDefiant

    StarshipDefiant Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    I really like Kirstie Alley, but I am a bit biased, because in most cases I'd prefer the original. Granted, the second actress made her more 'Vulcan' but even with my love with Vulcans, I can't buy that they are all stoic, emotionless beings. Kirstie Alley's version of it, IMO showed flaws, a character who questioned emotions and 'rash decisions' but made a couple herself.
     
  5. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Okay, you just wanted her big-time, it's okay, I thought she was totally hot in "Runaway" myself!;)
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Big chests, small chests, medium chests...it's all good to me.

    Anti-canon? All the way: Saavik was half-Romulan, the first Klingon in Starfleet was Konom, Spock did have a brother called Sybok, Kirk and crew served on Excelsior between STIII and IV, Nero did spend 25 years on Rura Penthe, Uhura married Stonn and Captain Janeway is dead.

    It's all good.

    :devil:
     
  7. s4ua

    s4ua Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Location:
    Virginia
    Kirstie Alley, because she seems to act more like a vulcan than the other actors.
     
  8. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    It's rather part of the very definition of "race," really.
    You're taking the space-alien stuff too literally. As a story-telling construct, the alien races encountered in Star Trek stood in for the races encountered on 17-19th century missions of exploration/colonization, representing for dramatic purposes specific challenges or threats.
     
  9. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Why is it absurd to see dark-skinned Vulcans on such a hot desert planet? Many people on Earth who live in such areas have extra melanin to cope. ST III even had Vulcans played by Asian actors.

    And yet people have called her Andorians "hokey" and her Tellarites "stupid".
     
  10. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Then I guess you just have a thing for overly emotional performances.
    And don't call me "Hans."
     
  11. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    The absurd part is making Vulcan's races just like those of Earth. Why not a dark green Vulcan?
    The Tuvok character was a totally blown opportunity. The first "black" Vulcan we see, and in charge of weapons, at that. Did his forbears come from a different geographical region of Vulcan, and if so, had there been conflict? What was the history? What drew him to security, an area the Vulcans we knew up to that point would traditionally frown upon?
    Instead of exploring these issues, TPTW paid a little lip service to myticism and then made him just an American with funny ears.

    You know what people say about opinions...
    Fontana really did understand that "alien" wasn't about a few bumps on the head, or even different customs. It was about an entirely different outlook on life (and death and everything in between).
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Mmmm. As much as I admire DC Fontana, I'm flummoxed as to what part of her TOS and TAS work leads you to set her up as such an exemplar. She attempted to keep the Vulcans on the straight and narrow during TOS, writing memos and suggesting ways to keep hybrid Spock unique among both Vulcans and humans.

    ST has done "alien" very well over the decades. The Children of Tama, Species 8472, ENT's Andorians, Benzites, Bolians, Betazoids, the Dominion races... Compared to all of those, what did we learn about TOS/TAS Andorians, TOS Tellarites, TAS Edoans, TAS Caitians, TOS Catullans, TOS Tiburonians, etc, that went beyond some non-human body features and a very brief statement of Andorian and Tellarite mindsets?

    Please give examples of DC Fontana's aliens' "entirely different outlook on life".

    Time, money, and the actor's willingness to spend many extra hours every day getting thick dark green makeup on every exposed body part. And more time spent for Wardrobe trying to get all the green stains out of Tuvok costumes every night. And repeat for his understudy and any stuntmen. The blueness of Shran only had to happen a few times each season in ENT. A dark green lead character - for seven years - is a very expensive statement on "race".
     
  13. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    Ul'Dah
    No, I suppose he has a thing for someone who can play a Vulcan worth a damn. Which Curtis could and Alley could not.

    Now, if you actually want to raise some kind of point and discuss it, instead of making inane statements, feel free.
     
  14. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    ^Since you can't be civil, I decline. If you want to read my more specific points about Curtis's failings, read way upthread. Or don't. Somehow I just don't really care.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    If you think Kristie Alley has a "Big" chest you need to get out more. If Saavik had developed into a ongoing character Alley, not Curtis, would have been the ideal choice. Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Not just comedy but drama too, lots of work. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Kirstie Alley was playing a hybrid Vulcan/Romulan. The script (and the director) told her to play certain scenes with degrees of Romulan emotion. As I child she was a ST fan. She used to practise eyebrow raises in the mirror, pretending to be Spock's kid sister. She knew how Vulcans acted and she knew how emotional Romulans could be.
     
  17. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Location:
    In the Before Time - the Long, Long Ago
    ^ Very true. Alley played the part exactly as she was told. However, when all the references to her Romulan heritage were dropped, we the viewers were left to assume that the character was, in fact, a full Vulcan.

    Therefore, I feel it is a valid criticism of the character to say that Alley's emotional performance is a detriment. If they were going to cut her Romulan heritage out, they should have toned down her emotional reactions in the editing room as well.
     
  18. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    EXACTLY. This is how I've felt about Kirstie's performance for ages. Once the Romulan connection was 86ed from the final edit of the film her performance should have been toned down just a little more than it wound up being.
     
  19. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    This is not a discussion of careers here. Saavik, that's all.
    And I like Curtis' performance better is all.:techman:
     
  20. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Location:
    Randyland
    As somebody who didn't even see his first Cheers episode until 1991, I have to say that both of your assertions are wrong.

    At least, as pertaining to me.

    Robin Curtis was the best Saavik. No question.
     

Share This Page