The Admirals character makes no sense whatsoever

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by James T Kirk, Sep 28, 2013.

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  1. James T Kirk

    James T Kirk Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Does it really seem that reasonable though that a complete psychopath like this would become a Starfleet Admiral?

    I don't see where all admirals have always been corrupt or evil. Admiral Hanson from Best of Both Worlds seemed alright. And the blonde admiral from TNG seemed normal enough.

    This guy is just a bit over the top imo.
     
  2. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know.

    Marcus believed he was doing the right thing by sacrificing Enterprise and its crew and starting a war with the Klingons to ensure the security of The Federation. There were probably more than a few in the upper echelon at Starfleet, after witnessing the distruction of The Kelvin and Vulcan, and the near destruction of earth, who felt that security at any cost was a plausible stance, which would include building up Starfleet as a military power and locking down on individual freedoms.

    This is not the Prime Universe.
     
  3. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    We don't know when Marcus snapped. When stacked against the likes of Cartwright, Pressman, and Leyton, Marcus is the average.
     
  4. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Admiral Cartwright tried to sabotage Klingon/Federation peace talks. Janeway somehow got promoted to Admiral AFTER all the crap she pulled in Voyager instead of rotting in prison where she belonged. You did have a good Admiral in the movie, Pike.
     
  5. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Weller was wonderful as the character, son. Shit, he stole the show when he was on screen. I bet that bastard brushed his teeth with bourbon, son.

    The thing that should scare folks is that he was not a psychopath. I once posted in some thread that he reminded me of Curtis LeMay. Someone (M'Sharak?) responded that Weller, himself mentioned LeMay as someone who influenced his character. LeMay was incredibly respected as a general and was pivotal to U.S. success in the air war in Europe and the Pacific in World War II. If he had had his way, he also would've started a pre-emptive nuclear war to defeat the USSR in the early 1960s even though he knew millions would die. Marcus was distressingly close to art imitating life.

    Also, as far as starting a war for the sake of war goes, we still don't know fully what happened to the Maine in 1898 that started the Spanish-American war. But someone was looking for a pretense for war, and there is was, convenient or created.

    Sane minds do dastardly things for what they believe to be very good reasons. It could keep one up at night thinking about people like that out there.
     
  6. Black Cloud S31

    Black Cloud S31 Ensign

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    From everything what we saw this Federations is less utopian.
     
  7. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I also don't think that Admiral Marcus was a psychopath. I think that he had become an extremist after decades of Cold War between the Klingons and the Federation. He believed that war was inevitable and wanted to fight it now, while he had Khan's advanced weaponry to give him an advantage. He genuinely believe that he was doing something that would ultimately help the Federation, so doing some questionable things and sacrificing some lives was a small price to pay. He was an "ends justify the means" kind of thinker. Being a huge Military History buff, I fully agree that Marcus reminded me of General Lemay later on in his career.
     
  8. Black Cloud S31

    Black Cloud S31 Ensign

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    The US is a democracy and Curtis LeMay was cut out of similar cloth.
     
  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I think the interview originally appeared at StarTrek.com, but Weller's answer regarding Lemay as a model for the Marcus character and characterization was quoted in this TrekToday piece. It's not long, so I'll quote it here:

     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    You want to go there?

    Evil and Corrupt Starfleet Admirals from the Prime Universe:

    Mark Jameson: In his lower ranked days, gave advanced weapons to both sides in a planetary civil war. As an Admiral, overdosed on anti-aging serum
    Norah Satie: Carried out a witch hunt on the Enterprise and accused anyone and everyone of being a spy, saboteur, threat to the Federation
    Erik Pressman: As a Captain illegally developed a cloaking device resulting in loss of ship and most of its crew. As an admiral tried to cover it up and acted like a douchebag.
    William Ross: Collaborated with Section 31, resulting in an innocent Romulan politician being framed and imprisoned.
    Leyton: Tried to stage a coup against the Federation President.
    Kennelly: Helped the Cardassians attack Federation outposts and frame the Bajorans and manipulate Starfleet into fighting the Bajorans.
    Matthew Dougherty: Helped the Son'a forcibly relocate the Ba'ku. This one's tricky, though, since he was under direct orders of the Federation Council and therefore not technically a renegade, even if he is one of the movie's villains.
    Cartwright: Where do we start? Conspiracy to assassinate the Klingon Chancellor and Federation President, framing other Starfleet officers, attempting to start a war between the Federation and the Klingons...
     
  11. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    It's actually a republic.
     
  12. Black Cloud S31

    Black Cloud S31 Ensign

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    A democratic republic.
     
  13. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    But not an actual democracy.
     
  14. Black Cloud S31

    Black Cloud S31 Ensign

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    Whatever, as long as the rights of all kind minorities are not infringed.
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At what point did some Americans start hairsplitting about whether a "republic" is a "democracy"? It's got to be a post-Cold War thing, surely?
     
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    That discussion, however, is for a forum other than this one, as it pertains to Star Trek and this movie not at all.

    Edit:

    Not here. (please refer to item 1. What goes in this forum)
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  17. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And all this makes me wish that Cartwright had more screen time, simply because I think each and every one of those actions deserve attention. Yeah, Chang was set up as the primary villain, but it takes two to tango, and Cartwright was Chang's Starfleet counterpart. (and Brock Peters is simply great, anyway)

    I just want to emphasize that yes, we're talking about Section 31 here. Say what you will about Marcus' qualifications and climb to power as an admiral, but just the Section 31 link alone provides the connection to the precedent of Starfleet corruption.
     
  18. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Isn't there only about 2 or 3 Admirals, in all of Trek that have been consistently portrayed in a Good light, and not breaking rules, in bed with Section 31 or enemies?

    Necheyev (Even she did that Cardassian plot thing that got Picard captured and tortured), The Admiral from Enterprise, and maybe 1 or 2 others?

    Almost all of the folks above Captain (and several Captains too) were shown to break the rules, be just crazy or psycho, or in bed with enemies
     
  19. Cap'n Claus

    Cap'n Claus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fixed it for ya. James T. Kirk never said that. Nor was he in the episode.

    :bolian:
     
  20. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Does Admiral Janeway count? Or did she simply not have enough screen time to abuse her newfound authority?

    Hah, come to think of it, ADMIRAL Kirk [/khan] stole the Enterprise, blew her up, and then changed the course of history, though all for good reason. I imagine that Internal Affairs couldn't have been too happy about the outcome of that trial at the end of TVH.
     
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