The absolute worst captain in Star Trek

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Mr Silver, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jellico was not good enough to command a ship like Enterprise, but he certainly wasn't the worst captain we've seen.
     
  2. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think that the "we're lost and need to get home" plot works at all, regardless of whether or not the universe is inhabited or not, and was the biggest mistake the Voyager staff made. Roddenberry was originally going to make the Yorktown *before he called it the Enterprise) be lost in space in the same way, but then he realized that in order to maintain some kind of anchor for the audience, he would not do this, an instead he would be able give the ship orders every week, and the episodes may or may not be about those orders... but it gave the ship a weekly purpose. By having them stranded, the viewer starts to look into details they shouldn't be even more than normal - details that might be difficult to keep consistent considering the logistics pf television production, things like whether there is consistency to the background crew wembers, or many shuttles we have. The Voyager writers were stupid for using the premise at all - it's only a good premise for a limited amount of time - say a story arc that lasts a limited number of episodes, and not good for a whole series. The Voyager writers should have swallowed their pride and got the crew home once they realized they couldn't sustain the premise. Oh, and putting the Maquis on the ship actually hurt. "Mr. Tuvok, we got disorderly people down on deck 9 who don't feel like following orders. And they have bad fashion sense. Oh they are Maquis and they are fighting to keep their home which was given to the Cardassians in the new treaty, despite the fact that none of us are near that home, that border, or the Cardassians."
     
  3. Satyrquaze

    Satyrquaze Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Would a good Starship captain "get caught up" in the personal affairs of apparently every planet they stopped at for supplies? Short answer: No.

    And I note you don't even touch back upon Janeway's lack of cosistent command style.

    The length of time that Captain Bateson is on screen is best measured in seconds; those were extrordinary circumstances to be sure. And you may not have noticed this, but sometimes Starship captains keep their full knowledge close to the vest when opening communications with an unknown party... even if that unknown party appears to be another Federation Starship captain. He really did not need to name drop in that instance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  4. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the "Lost Ship" thing is only good for 1-2 seasons at most. Every other "Lost ship" show in recent history had something else going for it:

    1) NuBSG, it wasn't just one ship but an entire mobile civilization, and it dealt with how society survives the apocalypse type stuff. And the show fell apart after 2 seasons.

    2) Farscape, as the show went on the plot became less "Crichton wants to go home" and more "Crichton must keep the doomsday weapon tech in his brain from being exploited" finally to "Crichton must use the information in his mind to end Galactic War."

    3) LEXX, was never a "Lost Ship" thing really but also made sure to have plots beyond that (The Gigashadow, Mantrid, Satan, etc).

    Seriously, VOY needed more than just "Lost Ship". The Borg/8472 war should've been the series plot after a while.
     
  5. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    who is captain bateson?

    Edit: i found it
     
  6. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "lost in space" and "gilligan's island" managed to make the premise work. VOY just needed a Gilligan character and a Dr. Smith character.

    Neelix could've been the Gilligan, screwing up their plans week after week, and one of the Maquis could have been the Dr. Smith, treacherously scheming against the crew week after week.
     
  7. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sonak, I don't agree, because Trek viewers would still notice inconsistencies like extras, shuttles whatever. In truth the premise really limits the dramatic possibilities of telling a Teek story
     
  8. Satyrquaze

    Satyrquaze Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That might have been a show worth watching...
     
  9. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It would have been ridiculous and unsustainable.

    Why didn't the Robinsons put an end to Doctor Smith? Answer: Dumb Kids Show and Harris is bringing in the numbers.

    If Janeway put up with the Maquis fucking up her ship and crew for more than two weeks there would have been no acceptable answer to the above question for most Trek viewers.
     
  10. Satyrquaze

    Satyrquaze Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ There was a bit of faction intrigue in Stargate: Universe which helped that show out a bit. But, then I think it only lasted two seasons, so there might be something to what you say.
     
  11. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Federation compassion and her continual quest to redeem them
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Richard Harris himself was the one who requested that the writers tone Smith down from the evil saboteur he was in the early episodes. He said it wouldn't make any sense for the Robinsons not to kill him or just kick him off the ship immediately if he stayed so clearly evil. So even HE saw it back then.

    So yeah, VOY's "Lost" story was good as a STARTER plot; something to start off the series, but within a season they needed to replace that with something else as the series plot. Like every other "Lost in Space" type show worth remembering did.
     
  13. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not only is such a plot unsustainable, I don't really find it all that interesting as drama, certainly worth all of anguish I'd have to endure to endure before it even becomes dramatically interesting. Look at ENT's third season. They were not only the only ship but they also were low on supplies and couldn't magically repair the ship between episodes. But the real thing was that they had a specific mission that required their real involvement, and episodes like the Shipment thought small were essential in building up to more satisfying fare such as Azati Prime, Damage, and the Forgotten. Those episodes bury seven years of plodding by Voyager
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, use "We're lost" for 1-2 seasons and then come up with a better series plot.

    As in, they don't know how to go home for S1-2 so they fly around making allies and enemies and getting dragged into local politics/events. Then in S3 the Borg/8472 War starts up and this is pretty much the plot for the rest of the series.
     
  15. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There fixed it for you :techman:
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Come to think of it, how many Voyager episodes actual required the ship to be "lost" in the delta quadrant? Cerainly a few yes. But the majority would have basically played out the same if the Voyager had been exploring a priviously unknown section of the alpha quadrant.

    They rarely made any use of the fact that maque were aboard, Chakotay and BeLanna could have, in most episodes, simply been new to the ship.

    The characters backstories the same.

    Having to cut through various peoples territories (including the borg's) didn't need to have happen in the delta quad.

    Having to stop for repairs and occasionl supplies could have happen to any of the captains if only outside of the boundries federation.
     
  17. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    Voyager is an additional show to the other Star Trek series and is therefore supplementary to the greater franchise.

    As they travel through space it provides the opportunity to write completely new plots with new characters as they travel along. And plus is the series that can best fulfill the original premise of going where no one has gone before and seeking out new civilizations, certainly far more so than TNG.
     
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But what kind of "New" plots would VOY's premise really bring? On it's own, the "Lost and on our own" thing still isn't enough to really be THAT interesting. NuBSG, Farscape, Lexx, Andromeda and Blake's Seven all had more to their series plots than that.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting point. For the most part, I agree. Although, had the ship just been exporing some remote area of the Alpha Quadrant, it would seem odd they didn't have a proper medical staff as opposed to a holograhpic doctor and his assistant. Also, I can't imagine Tom Paris as a con serving time tagging along on such a mission.

    Both problems are easy to work around. The doctor could have been human and still act the same way, he'd just be rude and have no social skills instead of being programmed that way. And instead of being a convict, Tom Paris could just be a slacking officer who didn't want to be in Starfleet and the character could have still developed the exact same way he did.
     
  20. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    I don't think Tom's character would have developed as it did with Voyager ~70 years from home. His father's shadow would have followed him where ever he went in the AQ. In The DQ, he was finally free of his father and he was able to become the best officer and husband he could. From what I remember Admiral Paris did realize he made mistakes with Tom, perhaps trying to turn Tom into the officer he was at that age; a mold Tom didn't fit. With fathers and sons, sometimes distance, make both realize their mistakes and turns them into better people and helps heal the wounds between them. It helped me and my dad. I ran all the way to Europe to go to school for a full semester and stayed for the full 6 months of my Visa. When I came back he was more accepting that I am gay.

    I don't think a human who lacks social skills would be a CMO, but rather a researcher. A good Captain would have had him transferred, and his Starfleet & Medical school records would have pointed that fact out. Unless the CMO was a desk job, he'd be forced off every ship he served on. (IMO Crusher's job as CMO would be mostly desk work. She'd have a staff of around 10 doctors and at least as many nurses and more field medics and assistant CMO who'd be the one dealing with patients. Leaving Crusher free to evaluate her staff and make reports and help with difficult diagnosis' and dealing with the Captain and XO. Kinda like Cuddy, except she wouldn't be looking for funding but supplies.)
     

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