TFF - The Good

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by austen_pierce, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    TFF is certainly worthy of a good bashing. There's plenty that could have been done better.

    Setting that aside to the plethora of other threads, what do you LIKE about this film? Some moments that stand out in my memory; the reasons I still watch....

    Bones muttering to himself while Kirk climbs the mountain.

    Uhura calling bullshit on Sulu and Checkov's 'blizzard'

    "Bourbon and beans... an explosive combination!"

    Kirk: "I could use a shower."
    Spock: "Yes"

    'Admiral' Harve Bennett: "I need Jim Kirk"
    Kirk: "Oh please" (sotto voce, you have to really listen for it)

    Scotty hearing Kirk's landing plan 'B': "He can't be serious!"

    Bones with Kirk and Spock in the brig: "If you're angry at him [Spock] why don't you throw him in the brig?"

    Spock to Kirk after the final rescue: "Not in front of the Klingons."

    Sulu and Checkov abruptly veering off after nearly following the female Klingon straight into Klaa.


    There are more... what saves this movie for you?
     
  2. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    The chemistry among the Big Three is better in this film than any of the others, particularly during the campfire scene and the scenes in the brig and the forward observation room. I also like that Shatner made sure to include memorable scenes and dialogue for each of the other characters, something that didn't happen in previous movies--save his treatment of Doohan, which I found petty and mean-spirited.

    I also liked Sybok's character and genuinely felt for him when he realized he'd been manipulated by the entity on the planet--his life's work amounting to nothing more than a carefully crafted hoax. It's a shame he was killed, as it would have been interesting to see him develop a relationship with Spock in subsequent novels--as Spock would likely be the only Vulcan who would consent to see and interact with him.

    --Sran
     
  3. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

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    The only good thing about ST:TFF was the Officer's Lounge with it's old-tyme ship's wheel and binnacle. I loved that set.
     
  4. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    -The music is great, one of the best scores of the series
    -the TOS feel to it, from the plot to the focus on the Big Three
    -Laurence Luckinbill's performance

    Good lines

    "what does God need with a starship?"

    "I couldn't help but notice your pain."

    "maybe he's not out there Bones, maybe he's in here, the human heart."
     
  5. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    There *is* a lot of things to love about TFF, but I've nothing in particular to contribute as the OP has pretty much covered everything I would list anyway. ;)

    It's a movie with a lot of its heart in the right place... it just suffers from a lot of other incidental faults ts well that do tend to sink it a little comparative to the rest of the series.
     
  6. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of my favourites, for all its faults. Prefer to IV and VI that bookend it. The good: Luckinbill's charismatic performance; the score; the new bridge set (and I liked the half-finished, Scotty-tinkering stuff); and two standout scenes - the shuttle crash, and Bones' pain segueing into the barrier.
     
  7. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I really like this one, too. I love the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic which really shines in this one. Of all the movies, I feel 5 is the one that most captures the feel of TOS.

    --Alex
     
  8. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    along with TMP and TWOK, TFF is one of the only three movies I really like out of the bunch.

    Many of my faves already mentioned, but also:

    Kirk's delayed take after saying "you can debate shakahree till you're green in the face.

    McCoy's I liked him better before he died.

    Kirk's 'i don't know ... i just don't know' at bedtime.

    The 'eat shit Sybok' look on Kirk's face when Spock refuses to leave with his big bro.

    The film's camera compositions, especially as they shift with camera and characters performing subtle moves that are just really really nice (the way KSM move in the lounge scenes is interesting, as they reform into different looking groupings. The mirrored shots you see as the spires rise on the god planet too, where you have Bones & Kirk react to one spire, and then a similar flipped view of Sybok and Spock.

    McCoy's defiance of God - that is dead fucking on target.

    Luckinbill's look when Kirk calls Sybok 'mad' ... THAT is Luckinbill's almost-Connery moment (also makes me imagine if they'd gotten Von Sydow or Brandauer, who are the others I think they approached post-Connery.)

    The whole approach to the god planet with the Goldsmith score and the weird electronic microscope shot of the surface - damn, where ARE they going? (then ... oh, it's just the desert. oh, but it is the LOST IN SPACE/WILDWILDWEST desert with the cool peaks, okay!)

    Guess I'll be rewatching this as soon as I get a new TV.
     
  9. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is something I think doesn't get enough attention. Shatner gets a lot of flack for his directing, but really unfairly. He picks a lot of good camera angles, and guides the camera to focus attention very nicely. There's a fair number of talky scenes in the movie and none of them are dull watching.

    Part of this is apparently making a virtue out of the tight budget: since much view screen stuff was done by on-set projection (if I remember it right), and the glimpses of Spock's and McCoy's pains were hidden behind theatrical scrim, with the result that it was relatively easy to have the camera float during all this. A chromakey version would be a lot more work unless the camera were held much more still.
     
  10. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Oh totally, totally. The reality that is often sadly overlooked is that Shatner does do a good job technically as the director, and on a story level as you might expect from somebody who had lived this universe for so many years he does evidently understand Star Trek to its very core (which is why the script feels, in so many ways, like such a throwback to TOS).

    Although the fans and the public have given him flak for his direction, the truth is everybody on the set had good things to say about him. Even the usual suspects, like Nichols and Koenig, admitted that Shatner was a really, really good director who worked very well with them on the set.
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I can think of no other movie that delivered a straightforward philosophical and/or pyschological statement: We need our experience, good and bad ("pain"), because it defines who we are.

    (only too bad, that Kirk is the only one realizing it - :ack: -which almost nullifies the value of aforementioned statement).

    In comparison, Spock's "The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" in TWOK is rather lame, IMHO. He's the captain of the Enterprise at this moment and therefore the safety of the crew and ship was his foremost responsibility (which the Italian captain, who ran his cruise ship on the ground, ignored and was appropriately toasted for). Also interesting what the Greek philosopher Aristoteles had to say on the issue.

    I loved the observation lounge, too, and the brig toilet seat instruction ("do not use while in spacedock") was just fracking cool. :techman:

    But in general the movie was rather too naive for my liking.

    Bob
     
  12. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like that it ended.
     
  13. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Compared to similar dialogue scenes in most of the other films?: yes, Shatner (and his DoP) do a good job.

    Nice touch.

    prat.
     
  14. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    random stuff i dug:

    -Goldsmith score (esp El Capitan/Sha Ka Ree approach)
    -opening rock climb
    -mysterious wheelroom
    -shuttle escape 'warp speed now!'
    -sha ka ree planet (trona peaks)
    -kirks end mountain climb (mirroring the opening) & BOP reveal
     
  15. mendelin

    mendelin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly my thoughts! I love TOS-movies for short and clear messages to the audience.

    "The needs of the many..." message in various forms was in all II-IV movies.

    In ST:TWOK:
    "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one". Supposed to be clear and totally logic. An initial message.
    In ST:TSFS:
    "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many". This reversal of initial message is a reason to think deeper. The second statement is closer to human than previous one. And the question is, why?

    The answer can be found in ST:TVH:
    "Humans are sometimes illogical. It helps to win". I found an amazing article, which addresses this topic.

    IMO, all TOS-movies are naive, but it makes them really "human" :)
     
  16. gottacook

    gottacook Commander Red Shirt

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    Saw it in the theater in 1989 and probably helped make it #1 for the one week that it achieved that rank. I liked the shot of the Enterprise in orbit with the full moon behind it. It lasted between 5 and 10 seconds, I think.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Sybok was excellent, and I loved the crew's interactions throughout. The music was wonderful. STV is like seeing old friends again going on a TOS-style adventure.

    I also loved the way Sha Ka Ree looked from space. That was an inspired planet design.
     
  18. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    I've always held that Shatner was unfairly beaten up over this one. Despite the limitations, he turned out a pretty good movie. One of my favorites.
     
  19. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    I like that it isn't a TNG movie.

    Seriously, I really like Klaa and Vixis. Those actors nailed the characters. It helped immensely they're pumped.
     
  20. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    Great discussion! Definitely agree on the TOS feel to the film, and the officer's lounge set with the wheel and floor-recessed communications station was a great add. Makes me wish they'd hung on to it for use in TUC.

    Couple more quotes... Can't believe I forgot this first one:

    Scotty: "I just fixed that damn thing!"
    "I think you gave me too MUCH time."
    "The right tool for the right job!"

    Spock to Sybok: "You are my brother but you do not know me."
    Kirk: "I need my pain!" (Pivotal to Kirk's character)