Spoilers TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Sep 17, 2013.

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Rate The Crimson Shadow.

  1. Outstanding

    77 vote(s)
    67.5%
  2. Above Average

    29 vote(s)
    25.4%
  3. Average

    6 vote(s)
    5.3%
  4. Below Average

    2 vote(s)
    1.8%
  5. Poor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    It's a public forum. I would expect everything said here to be in databases of multiple companies, countries, and individuals all across the globe. What does happiness have to do with reality?
     
  2. flandry84

    flandry84 Captain Captain

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    What does happiness have to do with reality??

    Kinda bleak there baby!:wtf:
     
  3. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    I guess the mantra of the authorities Jebus talks about is 'Trust no-one, suspect everyone' or such like. It is utterly bleak, not something I can do naturally, though understandable in its reasonable nihilism.
     
  4. trampledamage

    trampledamage Clone Moderator

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Okay, anyone who wants to continue discussing the morality or otherwise of spying can please take it to either Miscellaneous or TNZ - this conversation is no longer even remotely connected to a review of The Crimson Shadow.

    Thank you :)
     
  5. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    My review is here We also had Una on Literary Treks to talk about the book.
     
  6. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    I just finished listening to Una McCorkmack's interview. I really enjoyed listening to how she came up with her story ideas for writing this novel with Picard and Garak.I ordered this book but it hasn't come yet.:techman:
     
  7. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Sorry about that! We spoiled quite a lot! Glad you liked it!
     
  8. bfollowell

    bfollowell Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    This thread seems to have gotten horribly side-tracked, possibly even highjacked. I'm glad to see things have started to come back around just in time for me to pipe in.

    I just finished Una McCormack's wonderful book, Star Trek: The Fall: The Crimson Shadow. My initial reaction when seeing it weigh in on my Nook at 210 pages was, "It's far too short." I tried not to focus on something as superficial as length and dove into the story. I loved this story and read through it quickly, at least for me, yet, at the same time, I tried to stall finishing. I quickly remembered that I loved novels featuring Garak as a lead or main character, novels with Cardassian plot-heavy stories and novels written by Una McCormack, in that order.

    Both of the first two novels in The Fall mini-series have been excellent. I loved this title and am excited to see where events started in this novel lead in the future. After completing this novel, I believe I have to fall back on my initial reaction, it was far too short and over far too quickly.

    Now I'm on to David Mack's volume in The Fall series. Let's hope he doesn't kill too many main characters, kill off the whole Andorian species or destroy the U.S.S. Rio Grande!

    - Byron
     
  9. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    I've noticed that the books have seemed to be getting shorter again over the last couple of years.
     
  10. Jakks

    Jakks Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Just finished The Crimson Shadow. I enjoyed the book very much. I liked having Garak as one of the main characters, and I also liked Una McCormack's descriptions of a war ravaged and battered Cardassia Prime.


    Two thumbs up!
     
  11. Corran Horn

    Corran Horn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    I thought this was a great book. McCormack absolutely captured Garak and I really enjoyed the Garak/Picard interactions.
     
  12. sportzkid

    sportzkid Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Have not read whole thread to avoid spoilers, since still reading. I am on page 168 so far and quite enjoying it so far. It certainly caught my interest quicker than Revelations and Dust. This one has made me want to read the book quicker and keep going sooner than the last one did.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2013
  13. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Took friggin forever for Amazon to get this to me, so I only just finished last night. Posting my thoughts before going back to read the rest.

    Quite lovely. It definitely felt like the same tone as Una's other work, especially The Lotus Flower. She has this thing where her books don't have the same peaks and troughs as some other writers, but rather rumble along at a more consistent but still intriguing level, constant tension under the surface without ever breaking out into explosions. Because of this her stories sometimes feel not as big and expansive, but rather more intimate and 'real-life.' That's not a complaint, not in the slightest.

    As an example, I'm looking at the scene where there's a riot between the nationalists and the progressives, with the Constabulary in between, and Starfleet having to sit it out. Another writer would have taken the opportunity to punch up the adrenaline with a massive action scene at this moment, but that wasn't the point for Una. Fights are fights - what matters is the why and the who.

    I never for a moment believed Garak was really dead. He is if nothing else a survivor. And I'm still not convinced we really know for certain who was behind the assassination of Bacco. First a Bajoran, then the Tzenkethi, now the Cardassians. Too maybe maybes and must-haves and assumptions, with no hard evidence either way. Raise the Dawn showed us minor alliances between the True Way and parts of the Tzenkethi Coalition, so it's certainly possible that some Cardassian wanted to kill Bacco and used Tzenkethi technology to control a Bajoran patsy. But I get the feeling there's definitely more to come from that mystery. I definitely don't trust the new pres pro tem either.

    It also just occurs to me, and I'm surprised it didn't before, that this story is being released for the 50th anniversary of the shooting of Kennedy.

    Favourite moment - the political chat show, in which Garak simply obliterates the entire room with words. "We fought so hard to achieve freedom of speech. Seems a shame to waste it on lying to each other." Ugh - what a magnificent line. Worth the money right there.

    I also really enjoyed the meta-level about the power of literature. How something that seems to mean one thing in one set of circumstances can be completely reinterpreted in different circumstances. How one moment in a story, one brief series of words, can inspire a person, give them an epiphany or a revelation and completely change the course of their life, when those exact same words might pass another person by completely unremarked. Gorgeous stuff.

    The book as a whole didn't make me lose my shit. I think I preferred Brinkmanship just a bit - that was my favourite of the TP books. But this has definitely piqued my interest for the following books more than RTD3's did.

    Onward!

    .
     
  14. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!


    Well, that was a Picard who lived in a Federation that was sure of itself militarily, culturally, morally. I'm not sure that place exists anymore. The whole point of the Typhon Pact concept was to explore relative morality, I think. As others have said, I think there comes a point in certain circumstances where a slavish absolutist devotion to 'truth' can be a worse thing than letting some lies or omissions pass. The delicacy comes in knowing where to draw the line.


    Wasn't that just gorgeous, though? It doesn't need to be stated flat-out, but it certainly could be read that their relationship has developed into more than friendship. Garak has only had one true romantic interest that we know of, and that's Palandine. Yes, that is a woman. But I don't think anyone could deny that he a fascination with Bashir, a man, and it seems that his relationship with Parmak began in much the same way.

    It's not a coincidence that Parmak is a doctor like Bashir. Garak seems to need someone with that morality and that compassion around him, to counter his own darkness. And Parmak is the perfect version of that - the same righteous heart as Bashir, but with the same Cardassian history as him.

    I don't know if their relationship is evidence that Garak is bisexual, omnisexual, pansexual whatever, or just evidence that Cardassian males don't suffer the same macho bullshit as Klingons or 21st century Americans, and that that kind of physical intimacy between males isn't necessarily assumed to be romantic in nature. And I don't need an answer to that.



    What a lovely way of putting it. Absolutely right.


    .
     
  15. ronny

    ronny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Um, actually, I didn't start The Fall until Thanksgiving weekend and I've read the first 3 books.

    I like this one a LOT more than Revelation & Dust. I don't think I'm in the camp that likes it more than Neverending Sacrifice but hey, if you feel that way, I'm not going to argue.

    I think the only issue I have with the book is one of expectation. I really thought I was going to read a lot of Garak exasperating Picard and that didn't really happen, they got along and worked together. The first sentence of them together was of Picard being put off because Garak had stopped paying attention to him while he was talking but that was fixed up and that was it. But that wasn't the book she was writing so I can't fault the author for that.

    I also thought Picards statement at the top of page 15 was interesting "We've instructed our news services to not reveal the content of the treaty". So I guess the Federation news services are stenographers just like the White House press corps.

    I thought Garak was dead for like 3 seconds. First I thought are they going to kill off a liked character a book then reread that half a page and said to myself "never mind". I also was also happy to see the Federation not losing every situation to the Typhon Pact. Glad to see things end up on a positive light for the Federation.

    Yep, a good book. Series got off to an OK at best start but quickly improved.
     
  16. Mimi

    Mimi Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I definitely went into the book expecting for there to be some animosity between Garak and Picard. But to be honest? I loved that they got along, even going as far as to consider one another friends by the end of it. I hope its something future novels revisit. They have a lot in common, despite being on opposite spectrums of the 'good' scale.

    I think by having them be friends, it shows not only how far Garak has come as a character, but also how Picard continues to be open minded. He judges people based on how he interacts with them, not on reputation alone. I came out of that book with the sense that Garak and Picard are probably two of the more reliable people in the quadrant.

    Which is why Bashir continues to bother me in the novelverse. I'm not sure how much of it is intentional, and how much of it is just how he's been written lately...but it seems like he's very quick to take the moral high-ground with characters like Garak, while brushing off his own failings. His whole letter came off as sort of ironic, considering he's the one that's been off spying and killing people these days.
     
  17. sportzkid

    sportzkid Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    Garak also had a romantic relationship with Tora Ziyal during the TV show.
     
  18. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    And when you say romantic, what do you mean as I don't think they were.
     
  19. Corran Horn

    Corran Horn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TF: The Crimson Shadow by Una McCormack - Review Thread (Spoilers!

    She kissed him as he left the station when the Federation withdrew from DS9 at the very least.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  20. Mimi

    Mimi Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think its pretty clear he loved her, at least in the novels. I don't think it ever got intimate though. It seemed like she died right when Garak was warming up to the idea of it. He looked pretty excited to find her when they got back to DS9; had she lived, it probably would have progressed.