Spoilers TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Aug 18, 2013.

?

Rate Revelation and Dust.

  1. Outstanding

    29 vote(s)
    23.4%
  2. Above Average

    49 vote(s)
    39.5%
  3. Average

    29 vote(s)
    23.4%
  4. Below Average

    10 vote(s)
    8.1%
  5. Poor

    7 vote(s)
    5.6%
  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I think the issue there is that pretty the majority of people seem to dislike Martin's writing, while a lot of people around here do really like DRGIII's writing. I think it's just a case of people getting trying to defend something they like.
     
  2. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    OMG. First you're the spoiler police and now you're trying to control other people's ideas and expressions. What's next? A separate thread where you wine and cry about how people talk and the words they use?

    If I choose to describe a book as garbage, or rubbish or any other label, and it's my honest opinion, then who the hell are you to come in and criticize how I say it?

    There are some people throughout the world who don't understand how they suck all the fun and energy out of a place. As for mentioning DRGIII leaving TrekBBS, yes, he did leave. But I'm sorry, that was a choice he made and from my perspective looks a tad childish in my opinion. What? So everyone of his books MUST get good reviews in order for him to be a part of this community? Are readers not allowed to express themselves if they don't like a book of his? Look, he's not God nor is he the best Trek author who's a part of this community. The best Trek writers are as much a part of this TrekBBS family as you and I are, and have learned to have a thicker skin than that. They seem, of course within reason, to listen and share and strive to understand where we come from, and when we're wrong, let us know. They're Star Trek fans. They get it.

    They don't want to grab their toys and run fans don't like something they wrote. I love them for that and grateful they're here. If I had a choice between meeting an actor from one of the Trek series or one of these writers, I'd chose the writers. They help keep 24th century Trek alive. Let me be clear, I am a DRGIII fan too. SATR and RTD are two exceptional books. And I wasn't one all that upset about Rough Beasts, but that being said if I read something and I don't like, I reserve the right to review it and be honest about it here in this forum. And if I want to use the term garbage to describe it, then that's my choice.

    It's not for you to dictate how we post here.
     
  3. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mmmh, either you're deliberately lying, or you're saying DRG III is a liar:

    Way to go when you're trying to come off as the moral guiding light of the TrekLit forum. :bolian:
     
  4. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    I still remember when JWolf took issue to my stylish masturbator avatar, he didn't take kindly to being told repeatedly it was fine and that his avatar just showed him up of being a massive hypocrite.
     
  5. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I just noticed a reference to a one of DS9's new counselors, who might be a descendant of an Enterprise NX-01 crewmember.
     
  6. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Captain Captain

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    Both. I quite literally loathed the character in Zero Sum Game, and my opinion of him since has not improved. The last time I liked Bashir in a book was Abyss. In the novels since, he's increasingly portrayed as far more maudlin, whiny, and obnoxiously self-centered than he ever was in the series, and that's saying something. I cannot find a single likeable or redeeming aspect to his character now. I keep hoping he dies a horrendously ignominious death at some point, but I'm sure no one would ever sign off on the novels killing him.

    I really like Shar, and while the Andorian storyline has had its ups and downs for me, I love the species, so I'm happy when they show up in any meaningful way.
     
  7. Thrawn

    Thrawn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Right.

    So: confrontationally calling someone a liar, then?

    Not saying JWolf's posts aren't aggressive too, but if you're using DRG3's exit to justify your tirade against JWolf, you should maybe be sure your tirade isn't also exactly what he was talking about?

    I really like your posts in general, Defcon, but I have to call you on this. Most people on both sides aren't doing a very good job of lowering the "negativity and combativeness" in here.
     
  8. TJ Sinclair

    TJ Sinclair Captain Captain

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    As someone coming back to the forum from a rather long absence, the level of vitriolic squabbling here seems to have increased a thousand-fold over the last couple of years.
     
  9. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't see how this:

    equals this:

    The first one implies that DRG III was attacked directly and that was why he left, the second one only says that DRG III didn't enjoy the overall "feel" of the board at the time.

    But yes, quite frankly I'm tired of JWolf's posts and attitude, and have decided to not hold back anymore whenever he is spewing his tirades.
     
  10. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I get that the thread has sort of (d)evolved into this current discussion, but I don't think this is the place for it.
     
  11. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah - let's get back to talking about how large elements of this book blow.
     
  12. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Please lets get back to discussing the book instead of g:brickwall::brickwall::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::ack:getting get off topic and fighting it gets tiresome.:scream:
     
  13. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

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    I see. I wasn't so down on ZSG - I felt this was very much the Bashir of AR-558, the depressed and sometimes cynical veteran, and also the lone genetically engineered man bereft of companionship. But taken to the extremes of how the series's end and the relaunch's direction had left him, as of The Soul Key and Destiny - a Bashir without any close friends (long without Miles or Garak, his two closest friends, and Ezri/Dax too). * ZSG's depressed Bashir made sense, to me, and more so, it made sense for him to jump at Sarina, a woman (he/the script) slightly objectified in Chrysalis. This is Bashir after all! **

    * I liked how DRG left ambiguous through Ezri's POV whether he thought it a misguided romance, based on Bashir's old Jadzia crush. That felt psychologically real.

    ** I'm not sure I fully accept the continuity of Sarina'a characterisation to date since ZSG. She doesn't seem as clinical and cold, nor as physically and mentally superior, as she was in that book. Of course neither is Bashir. But Bashir's psychological changes make sense if one sees him as - somewhat - dependent on those closest to him (Dax, Miles, Garak - even Kira and Odo - now Sarina) with these people removing his (understandable, given his differences) sense of crushing isolation. He is deeply in love, and is grounded on her. Gone is, therefore, his cold and isolating depression. His newfound joy robbed him of the loss of his prior depression. And Miles is back too (although these two have not shared the same relationship of the past...). In terms of his development, I do hope L'Haan, and the other Mack S31 agents, come back with a vengeance at some point too (hopefully in Fall Book 3).

    Yeah me too. As a historian I would be loath to say they are the same, but the recent burst of Andorians as a core part of the Federation in Christopher's Choice of Futures and in Vanguard makes me just wish to see more of them, in all their complexities. The easy seperation of a federal/nation state from a bigger nation just doesn't happen overnight, or even in 60 days. For example, if Scotland does go independent, it wil take at least two years from referendum to independence. Seperation is so much more complex than pure politics. It is cultural, familial, social, demographic. I loved the image of the multicultural Deneva in Mack's Destiny - and I kind of think that most Federation 'colony' worlds would be like this. What happened to all those Andorians on other worlds? IF the Federation is 900 trillion people (or whatever the correct figure was in the new book), despite their shrinking population, that must have been a lot of Andorians in the Federation. Vanguard especially suggested how widespread they were in the 23rd century, and there were a good number used throughout the 24th century treklit. So there seems to have been a lot. Or maybe not (because of course their population is a dramatic concern). I don't know. I kind of hope for more problematisation of the seperation - beyond just Typhon Pact sympathies and loyalties issues (I must admit to not having read the Titan books with the Andorian issues).

    As for Shar. He was interesting, and - despite it being too cliche for them to reunite - it would be nice for Prynn and him to share a conversation. And - to go on an important tangent - for Prynn to perhaps have facetime too, independent of the men in her life. Because it would be great for her to have some characterisation too, now her father (and the Andorian) is (are) not her main dramatic conceit(s).
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  14. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    This is a really hard book to rate. The reason that it is so hard is because the other books in the Fall mini-series could take this book to a new level or could drop it in the toilet. It isn't 100% complete on it's own. That's why it really needs to have the other book(s) out to see where things go and what happens. This is a good book. But if the other books don't support it well enough, then it gets dragged down. I'm hoping the other books cause this one to rise up.
     
  15. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    And that is why it fails.
     
  16. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    On it's own, it doesn't fail. It's how it does with the other books that matters. I don't care that it's not 100% self-contained. It's part of a mini-series.
     
  17. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    But here's the thing, we're told on here that all the stories can be read independently of each other, even on memory beta it says this:

    So yes, because it can not be read as it's own thing, it needs the other Fall novels to be 100% complete in your, and my opinion makes it, in my opinion fail.

    I'm sure once all five novels are released and read, this one will be retroactively improved, but as it stands now, on it's own, independent from all the others, it is lacking and it fails because it can not be enjoyed on it's own in my opinion.
     
  18. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    Overall I thought it was okay. Far from the best or the worst. I found the Lira plotline a little sow and bogged down at times. No reason to have her watch a scene played out from the pilot for pages and pages. The plot twist inolving the criminal act was obvious that there was more than it appeared to be. Was it ever explain ed why the leaders at the podium were not behind some type of forcefield?
     
  19. Kertrats47

    Kertrats47 Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe it was a Borg-style forcefield that stops energy weapons but lets bullets through. For some reason. ;)
     
  20. ICW

    ICW Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought the book was pretty solid.

    We were given a very detailed description of the new Deep Space Nine, a rather interesting story regarding Keev/Kira, Odo accepting a chance to contact a new shapeshifter-esque species, the assassination of President Bacco, the Tzenkethi possibly behind the assassination, and the return of Taran'atar. For this being the first of a five-part miniseries, I was VERY satisfied.

    We also go to see how nearly every character is struggling with issues that will ultimately be resolved - for better or for worse - at the end of this miniseries.

    It was a good set-up for the next four books. DRGIII is one of the best 'Trek writers (in my opinion).