TF: Revelation and Dust by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Aug 18, 2013.

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Rate Revelation and Dust.

  1. Outstanding

    29 vote(s)
    23.6%
  2. Above Average

    49 vote(s)
    39.8%
  3. Average

    28 vote(s)
    22.8%
  4. Below Average

    10 vote(s)
    8.1%
  5. Poor

    7 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kertrats47

    You, Sci&co are trying very hard to miss the point.
    For a person who buys this book from a library, not dedicated enough to conduct internet searches and without intending to collect future star trek novels, this book is garbage.
    It does NOT stand on its own; indeed, it fails miserably at this.
    And, even within the larger trek lit, it is boring.

    And - a 2 page reconciliation with no connection to the so-called plot line of the novel? Or characters just being themselves? Such developments are supposed to make this novel a "superb character study"? Ridiculous.
     
  2. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I suppose this is another basic philosophical difference, then. To me, anything that can be removed from a novel without affecting the outcome should be removed. Chekov's Gun. Their making up served no purpose to the plot of the novel. Nor did the mentions of Quark's financials.

    Now, let's say in book #2 of The Fall, Julian and Ezri must work together to foil a dastardly plot by blah blah blah. That's where you put the stuff about them making up. Because that's where it will serve some purpose to the plot! Yes, I want to know how these characters are continuing their lives, but I want the accounts of their behaviors to matter to the novel! Otherwise, why not just create a daily diary for each character and call that the next novel?
     
  3. Kertrats47

    Kertrats47 Commodore Commodore

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    Fair enough. I guess we just do have differing viewpoints, and the fact that this is the first book of a five-book series tells me that many of these moments will pay off in the future. But I can understand the desire to see the pay-off right away.
     
  4. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not just about immediate gratification. It's about any gratification. The first chapter hints at the disastrous event. That's the hook. The rest of the novel has almost no bearing upon it. When the novel finally does turn to satisfying the hook, it's too late, and the novel is over. You've just read all those pages without the hook ever being resolved.
     
  5. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I voted above average. It would have been Outstanding, but the Kira stuff with her seeing/being an ancient bajoran felt pointless and just wasn't that interesting. Besides that the book was very good, and I'm definately exciting to read what happens next.
     
  6. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Sure the book will end up alright when viewed through the lense of the entire 5 part series, but I was definitely a little disappointed that it didn't stand on its own a little more WHILE contributing to the series. Felt like watching the first act of a tv episode, except in this case, we paid for the whole episode.

    Not saying you had to pay off the whole thing right away, but there needed to be some smaller arcs that COULD be resolved as part of the overall narrative. This was just setup for later and really doesn't stand on its own very well, IMO. The Typhon Pact novels had their own story while contributing to the overall series, whereas this was just the warmup, but didn't do much on its own.

    What story was just told? Don't list something that happened (the obvious event), but how would you define how this story breaks out? Was there a beginning, middle, end? Did we learn anything about anything? What was the obstacle that was overcome (or failed to overcome)? Stuff just was introduced or HAPPENED, and we'll presumably get the rest of the story later. All intro, no payoff.
     
  7. shanejayell

    shanejayell Captain Captain

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    Finished it, liked it. Rated it above average, as I liked the modern day bits but the Kira/prophet bits bored me. *lol* Looking forward to the next one.

    Regarding the current debate... I think it would have been better off labled ;The Fall Book One. Then you'd know better what you were getting into.
     
  8. star trek

    star trek Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I rated it below average.

    Half of it felt like it was a dream/vision sequence. It wasn't interesting at all and I ended up skipping most of it. In the end I felt it didn't even really matter.

    The other "real trek" half was a big let down. A lot of it was spent talking about the new Ds9. I get it. It replaces a prominent setting and you want to showcase it but do you really need to have 3 (?) opening ceremonies complete with speeches, albeit for differing sections.

    Also the end of a prominent trek novel character didn't really do it justice. There was so much more opportunity to have political intrigue in the story but it wasn't made to full use. You have almost all the major leaders concentrated in one place and very little page time was dedicated to them.

    This was a huge let down, I had hoped for more from the novel.
     
  9. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    What about the fact that Revelation and Dust is book one of a five book mini-series don't some of you get? If everything was wrapped up in the first book, there would be no need for the other four books.

    Take a good look at The Empire Strikes Back. It ended with a cliff-hanger and we have to wait for the next movie to find out what happens. It's the same sort of thing here.

    It's not supposed to wrap things up in book one. It's supposed to wrap things up in book five. Yes, some things will be wrapped up before book five, but the entire story won't be wrapped up until book five.

    Now, onto the actual book. I'm not finished reading it, but one thing I am liking is finding out what's happened to some of the characters during the two year time span. For example, Sisko and family have moved on since we last saw them. That is character development right there.
     
  10. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Captain

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    average

    i thought the first half of the book was way too slow and boring. a lot of that has to do with the authors writing style imo. I simply don't like how he writes. way too wordy for my taste.

    it did pick up in the second half, but the death of Bacco fell flat cause you see it coming a mile away. Loved that Taranatar is back as well as Kira. The DS9 security crew is certainly the dumbest group of peeps in Starfleet.

    in the end, it's about what I expected it would be. I really wish the DS9 books would get a different writer. the excitement of the initial relaunch books is simply missing.
     
  11. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    For an in depth response, you can simply read back a few pages. But to sum it up: this book had no story arc of its own. Therefore, it's not comparable to TESB, since that movie had a complete arc of its own, even though it ended on a cliff-hanger.
     
  12. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    I cannot answer about whether there is a story arc or not as I've not yet read enough. But I do recall the last time we got DS9 and we had the same lynching until the second book came out and then the lynching stopped.

    But as for TESB, it was an INCOMPLETE story until we saw the Return of the Jedi. TESB had a beginning, a middle, and NO END. It did not have this arc you are talking about. The arc was only there when the 2nd and 3rd movies were paired up.

    This book doesn't need the this story arc you think is missing. It just need to be enjoyable and it needs to start off the FIVE book mini-series. I don't expect this to be a complete book on it's own. I expect it to be part of a FIVE book mini-series. I expect there to be this ARC when you read all FIVE books.

    What I am reading is some are not getting just what a FIVE book mini-series actually is. It does not mean that each books has to be standalone. It means they have to work when put together. Do they? I cannot say until after reading all FIVE books.
     
  13. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    But isn't that pretty much what Fellowship of the Ring, An Unexpected Journey, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Part 1, and probably Mockingjay Part 1 are?
     
  14. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    A lot of TV shows do the same thing with a cliffhanger episode as the last episode of the season to get us to tune back in the next season.

    The Destiny trilogy was like that. I don't think they are complete on their own. But together, all three make a complete story.
     
  15. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Complete bullshit. They were character arcs; you just didn't like them.

    Meaning you knew full well it was book one of an interconnected miniseries, and it was marketed as such.

    They served the clear purpose of continuing the ongoing serialized story of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, which has always -- on TV and in the Relaunch novels -- contained character-based B-plots that were not directly related to the main plot. Or are you going to say that, for instance, the Quark/Garak scenes should have been removed from "The Way of the Warrior?"
     
  16. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    To answer your last question. If all Garak and Quark did during the episode was talk about root beer, whether amongst themselves or to other characters, yes they should be removed. Besides, that's a poor example, since their arcs in that episode show them feeling one way about the Federation, and then changing that opinion before the episode ended.

    A character arc is to move a character from one point of view to another, and show through the narrative how that change took place. None of the characters in this book grew or changed at all. None of them changed from Raise The Dawn to the end of Revelations and Dust.

    Here's a good example of an excellent and actual character arc. In Star Trek II: TWOK, in the beginning of the movie Admiral Kirk felt he was to old to make a difference. In his opinion, galloping around the cosmos is a game for the young. But at the end of the movie, through the arc and over all theme of the movie he changed that view, stating he feels young again.

    Another good example is I, Borg. In the beginning of the episode, both Picard and Guinan hated Hugh the drone and was willing to use him as a weapon to destroy the Borg. But thanks to the arc of the episode, we're shown how and why they changed their mind to seeing him as being an individual.

    Hell, let's go back to the last two books, Sisko refused to reunite with his family, yet we're shown through the story that he changes his mind and is reunited with his family.

    I do not see one example of a proper story arc in this book, and that's why it's not that good in my opinion. And I like DRGIII's books most of the time. Raise The Dawn was excellent. He just didn't deliver in this one. Of course I'm no expert, just a reader with an opinion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  17. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think I can fairly well let Halliwell's response stand as my own without making my own point-by-point rebuttal. I'll just add two things.

    1) An incomplete story (cliff-hanger) is not an incomplete story arc. A story arc can be fulfilled while leaving room for continuation.

    2) I think folks here are intelligent. As such, I think you guys can come to your own opinions about how the novels compare in a literary sense. I think, however, that some of you let your fandom get in the way of that. You're so happy to see any instances of your favorite characters, that you let it blind you to the flaws of the book. You're so happy to see any Trek books, that you let it blind you to the flaws of the books. The TrekLit lines won't die because you allow yourself to see how flawed they are. They will die, though, if their flaws aren't recognized and fixed before a wider audience is turned off of them.
     
  18. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

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    If you recall in Raise the Dawn that things were somewhat tense between Ezri and Julian. This is the continuing arc from that plot. There's no way you can say it's not and be correct.
     
  19. JeBuS

    JeBuS Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    At this point, I must believe you're purposefully missing my point. In reference to this book, which starts at the first page, and ends at the last, the Ezri-Julian encounter serves no purpose to the plot. It is not a character arc on its own, because it stands in a void, and advances neither characterization. I am reviewing this book. I'm not reviewing Raise the Dawn. I'm not reviewing the rest of The Fall which hasn't been released yet. I am reviewing Revelation and Dust. That is all.

    There was a nugget here that I missed the first time through, that I think deserves pointing out. This novel was not marketed as a serial. Serials are something entirely different.
     
  20. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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