terran empire

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Xzpezer, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Xzpezer

    Xzpezer Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Location:
    united kindom
    Does anyone know How the Terran empire was crated we saw in a mirror darkly that first contact was different instead of Zefram Cochran tacking the Vulcan's in friendship instead he killed them.i think what he did was when he killed the Vulcan's he then stole there ship and used its technology to take over the world.And create the Terran Empire.Does anyone else think differently how the empire was created.
     
  2. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    I doubt it was that straight forward. Something had to already be different for Cochrane to make that decision rather than the one he made in the history of the Prime and Nu universes. One of the novels suggested that there were differences going all the way back to that universe's version of Shakespeare, and one of the Prime characters was afraid to even pick up a Bible to look, there. Another novel - one of Shatner's - suggested that the difference was whether or not Cochrane chose to tell the Vulcans about the Borg. Both novels have been contradicted since their release by screen canon, though. So it is still an open question. Also open to question is whether there was a point of divergence *at all*, or was the Mirror Universe simply a parallel development from the very beginning (which I guess would make the beginning the point of divergence, but that seems like splitting hairs).
     
  3. Xzpezer

    Xzpezer Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Location:
    united kindom
    How do you think the Empire was created and what made Cochran kill the Vulcan's
     
  4. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Possibly something as small as the Mirror Universe's U.S. Constitutional Convention deciding that they wanted to call their head of state "king" rather than "president". No change in powers, just the difference in title, might have been enough over the course of time.

    But who knows? The only thing obvious is that it had to be something fairly fundamental, yet minor enough that it didn't cause such sweeping changes that any of the main characters from TOS were never born or were born with different names or even for there to be a dramatic difference in ship design.

    As an aside, I tend to think that Cochrane and Sloan knowing about the Borg and telling the Vulcans is the point of divergence between the Prime and Nu universes - but I've gotten in quite a few disagreements about that on the board. :D
     
  5. Xzpezer

    Xzpezer Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Location:
    united kindom
    Maybe the Terran empire already existed for hundreds of years and when he killed the Vulcan's he used there ship to take over the world and expand it into space i found this fan crated timeline on the mirror universe here is the link to it reed it and see what you think of it reply back tome once you read it.http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...H5pY6X5sovCDW29-g&sig2=je7HPlw8eHeTkm0xyRG7iw
     
  6. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    It's revealed in "In a Mirror, Darkly" that the differences between universes go back to at least Shakespeare's time. So therefore, ST:FC can't be the point of divergence, if indeed there ever was one (i.e. assuming there used to be one universe which split into two, as opposed to the two universes always existing in parallel to each other).
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    According to Enterprise the Terran Empire had already existed "for centuries" and indeed the opening credits show the flag of the Terran Empire being planted on the moon, implying the Empire existed at least as far back as the 1960s. According to Mirror Phlox, Prime Universe literature is "soft and weak" compared to Mirror literature, although Shakespeare is apparently the same in both universes. Hell, the graphic of the globe seen in Enterprise's opening credits depicts it rotating in the opposite direction. Might this be an accurate representation perhaps implying on MU Earth the sun rises in the west? And having the sun rising in an opposite direction has resulted in humanity becoming evil.
     
  8. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    I don't remember anything suggesting that the difference dates back to the reign of Queen Elizabeth I (the monarch during Shakespeare's early life) being depicted in "In a Mirror, Darkly" at all. To be honest, the episode makes it appear that Cochrane himself is the divergent element, reacting to the arrival of the Vulcans with violence instead of and open hand of welcome, and only reacted with welcome because of the Enterprise crew.

    My personal theory is that Khan won the Eugenics War, and was eventually deposed, but by then society had been changed to where aggression and self-aggrandizement were praised and supported. By Cochrane's time, little had changed in appearance, but attitudes were such that Cochrane killed the Vulcans instead of welcoming them.
     
  9. Xzpezer

    Xzpezer Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Location:
    united kindom
    And for some reason because of different events in the mirror universe Cochran killed the Vulcan's and stole there ship and used it to take over the world.why do you think he killed them
     
  10. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Good eye for detail! I had not noticed that.
     
  11. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    It's my impression that the Mirror Universe is not an alternate history, but simply a "reversed" universe. In which case it wouldn't have a single point of divergence.
     
  12. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Location:
    Clinton, OH
    Here's what I found from the transcript.

     
  13. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    That line of dialog is no guarantee he was comparing authors contemporaneous with Shakespeare. For all we know, he could have been talking about the collected works of Harold Robbins and Jacqueline Susann. Call it what you will, to me it's too vague a reference to be considered definitive.
     
  14. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Location:
    Warrior, AL
    IIRC in the opening credits of 'In the Mirror Darkly' they show the history of the Terran Empire complete with an 'Evil' Enterprise sailing ship firing it's cannons. I think the point is that there is not a single point of divergence but a parallel development where given a choice a man would choose the darker, more aggressive option. History would have similar events but different outcomes.
     
  15. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Yeah, the Mirror Universe is just that a DIFFERENT universe, not to be confused with a different\multiple timelines within the same universe.
     
  16. desfem79

    desfem79 Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Just a parallel universe, as has been stated.

    So the LUCA was an "evil" bacteria. THe first land animal was an "evil" amphibian. The "evil" dinosaurs got killed by an asteroid, then millions of years later "evil" apes evolved, with one "evil" species walking up right, developing stone tools, harnessing fire, developing complex language and becoming behaviourally modern. lol..
     
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    One other theory: The mirror universe is our universe.
     
  18. MNM

    MNM Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    I've always preferred the idea that there is no point where things changed. That up until Kirk's transporter accident, the "Mirror universe" didnt exist, and once the accident happened, the whole thing was created, but created to be a "mirror" image of the main universe.
     
  19. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    That's an awful lot of power to attribute to the Enterprise's transporters and an ion storm!

    But, I guess I could still see how it could work, if it wasn't contradicted by Enterprise's "In a Mirror, Darkly".
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Except that in Mirror, Mirror the MU had some history developed for it that wouldn't make sense if it had been "just created." Kirk's service record had a list of his successful campaigns and that he assumed command of the Enterprise upon assassinating Pike and so on.