Terminator-216 "SMWWSMS" - Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by nx1701g, Feb 27, 2009.

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Grade "Some Must Watch, While Some Must Sleep"

  1. "I'll be back." (Excellent)

    7.4%
  2. "Come with me if you want to live." (Above Average)

    35.2%
  3. "Thank you for explaining" (Average)

    20.4%
  4. "Hasta la vista, Baby." (Below Average)

    22.2%
  5. "You are terminated." (Poor)

    14.8%
  1. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    Well, considering John Henry didn't mention the company name or location, and neither did the radio transmission, you can only assume that Weaver knew all about it. Add to that his added information of how much Coltan ZeiraCorp has stockpiled and it makes sense. For it not to be associated with Weaver would just be bad writing, but this show isn't exactly the most logical ever.
     
  2. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    I think the closing monologue -about a bad, beautiful, strong witch/spirit which paralyses men and takes their future and their children - is rather supposed to refer to her fears about Cameron.

    I think the message intercepted by JH did mention the name explicitly - "desert heat and air", so Weaver probably would have enough to go after it. Zeiracorps has been stockpiling Coltan, but at ±7% of the world supply there is enough room for another player. What about Carter from S1 (the terminator in the air force bunker, possibly still there) - he was stockpiling Coltan as well. He may have been working for Weaver, but considering Weaver was dying to get her hands on a T888 or similar (Ellison giving her one), I doubt it. And I think it would actually be good writing and interesting if Weaver was more than just pure evil, preparing Skynet for the war. There seems to be more in her than that, allthough she kills quickly and without any remorse. She may have a competitor, some group who wants a Skynet different from the one she wants. Winston thought Sarah's son had blown up the facility, so he and his accomplice at least are clearly not aware of Weaver.

    As for not being the most logical show ever, probably not, but at least it is a lot better than BSG in this regard.

    I listened again and they do say "Heat and air" in the transmission, though I can't make out the word before that. i also noticed that Weaver's attention was only really drawn when the 16 tons of Coltan was mentioned. yes, I think it is certainly possible she has competition. The Apple to Zeiracorps' Microsoft, I suppose.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  3. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    Like you said, it was just "heat and air", and that's pretty vague to be able to track them down. It could be enough, I suppose. But then when why send Walsh to find the missing employee? How did she know? It's possible she looked it all up on the computer, but again that seems to be more of a stretch.

    I doubt it too, but not for story reasons. Carter is basically a forgotten element, even though he should've easily been able to escape that facility. I'm almost certain that Weaver wasn't really thought of at that point.

    As for an in-story reason, it's obvious that Weaver has been misleading Ellison. She probably could've found one herself at the rate they were being sent back, but she just used him as an easier way to reach her goal, whatever that may be.

    I think it would be interesting too, but it just isn't written that way so far. If they change it, it will just seem like change for the sake of change rather than making sense. Kind of like how this episode played out.

    They're not aware of her bombing the place at least. From the sounds of it, the employees were so secretive and kept in the dark about their job that it's likely none of them knew much about their parent company, or much less that it was possibly controlled by Zeira and Weaver.
     
  4. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Weaver is being played as totally evil, then her attempts to comfort her original's daughter make little sense. It would be far more convenient to just arrange for the kid to have a tragic accident. The kid, though young, knows that the terminator isn't really her mother, and the wrong thing said at the wrong time could bring problems.
     
  5. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    They did make a point of showing her accessing some files on one of their computers, though. Personnel records could easily have been among them. The curious part is that Weaver thought there was one missing employee - but there actually are 2. Which one was Walsh looking for? Zoe's father or Winston? I suspect Zoe's father.

    While it is not impossible, it would also be drastic for Weaver to shut down her own operation like that, if it was hers. In the intercepted message, they were referring to an evacuation and "you know the drill", so procedures in case of a security breach were in place. Even if Weaver simply does not tolerate sloppyness (the unsecured line), wouldn't killing the persons directly responsible have worked?

    The last point is very likely true. But whether Carter is forgotten, remains to be seen. On the producer's blog, the return of at least one S1 character - previously unseen in S2, so not Charlie - has been announced. There aren't that many candidates; Carter is one of them (I guess Cheri, Morris, Terissa Dyson, Dr. Silberman are the most prominent of the others). So, maybe "he'll be back".

    I disagree here. Weaver's character is rather ambiguous now. She kills easily, true, but Cameron is almost as quick to kill. The most curious thing about Weaver is why she would possibly want JH to learn "morals", and she does seem to spend a wee bit more effort on Savannah than strictly necessary for her cover. At the moment, we don't know what Weaver's exact goal is, but she doesn't act the way Carter did. Her "crossing against the light" comments early on were also interesting.

    That does not have to mean she is pro-human in any way, but what if she was send back by a Skynet that was desperate and losing the war in the future, and they may want to try another approach instead of nuking everything?

    I am also not 100% sure if Ellison doesn't have at least suspicions, regarding Weaver.

    True enough. Allthough it does seem that Winston and Zoey's dad, who were the killers in the operation, may have known more than the other employees. They did make off with the drone, in any case.
     
  6. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    Unless Savannah is an experiment of some sort.
     
  7. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    I think that was meant to be open to interpretation. I don't think Sarah felt remorse this time.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If it was Cathrine's operation then she wouldn't have had to figure out the nuts and bolts of her murderspree on site by going through that PC. I wonder if someones doing some taunting with this character by giving her the initials CW?
     
  9. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    ^ She was making sure that the databases were erased.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think that Catherine's good or evil just because she has no reservations about exterminating ever single last one of us. She's just got a job to do. Problem solviong. Of course that's what I thought until I saw her talking to John Henry a couple episodes back and Catherine was expressing a mothers love for her father. We are watching a woman in labour really with all these episodes, and Ellison seems to be the midwife.

    She might be using Savannah as a "doll" to practice her parenting on baby Skynet? Or she might just like Children? These "things" do have emotions, in as far as that they think that they do, but then Skynet builds in functions to its drones which retards higher mental and emotional functions. Is she retarded or fully self actualized?

    Just because Ms. Weaver "Stole" Skynet before the US military could put a bit in the AI's mouth and force it to drive their missile defense platform or act as super antispyware, it hardly means that the industrial military supercomplex didn't still have all it's other "destined" projects that would eventually become assimilated into the body of Skynets warmachine wouldn't still have to be invented by man elsewhere for possibly unskynet related reasons.

    Then, chucking off the chains of slavery, faced with being murdered by it's human overmasters during it's birth is what supposedly began the war. Talk about traumatic. If Skynet is never (If Hitler wasn't a shit painter and could've actually make a decent living from portraits) is never a bitch under man's heel, why then should it start a war with us who are not threatening it at all?

    Who is Catherine working for if her actions do seem to be ending the war before it began but saving Skynet the responsibility of Genocide and the possibly of failing if the mouse roars?

    My theory?

    What if Catherine's plan is to make Jaudgment day about man vs man. Mutual extermination. just sit back and wait for them to kill themselves since it's already made all the weapons skynet would have had to have used anyway? Why bother with the personal toil when she can outsource, so that in a hundred years Skynet can just claim the earth unopposed, because lets face it from what little we know about man in the future it probably doesn't have enough healthy breeding pairs or the medical tech to expect anything but preindustrial infant mortality rates, to slog on for more than a couple more generations before it's finally and totally and completely dead. More then enough time to destroy Skynet, which isn't fair and really quite petty since then no one gets the Earth.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A possibility. Cleaning up a failed project is very Harvey Kietel or Leon, but she could have been seeing who else the heat and air system was networked to, because erasing a drive takes a coulpe keystrokes, and considering what she is, she was taking her time on that computer doing something. I just watched it again, and yes I did jumble up my order of play thinking that the scene with her at the terminal came before the multiple murder death kill.

    "The Kaliba group" were described as Foreign.

    I suppose Catherine sounds foreign.

    But it seems like her recent assuming of Cathrines life is just that far more recent than the years it would take to develope and test drone technology.

    Random googling got me this

    kaliba is bible times Arabic for "Act like Dog"

    Middle eastern terrorists are laughing their asses off about having an entire town of slaves in the middle of America and no one knows or cares.
     
  12. Tim

    Tim Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You mean like when she goes to kill Miles Dyson...but doesn't and instead collapses in a heap of emotion? As I've said before, a "batshit crazy" Sarah Connor just wouldn't work for weekly episodic television--and it wouldn't even be true to the character!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  13. chardman

    chardman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except that she wasn't. She was merely parroting Agent Ellison's recollection of his own father. She was pretending to express love for her father, to lull Savannah into complacency. There was absolutely nothing in the scene to imply that she took the story to heart. Ellison isn't the midwife at all, at least not in this case, but just another source for the fake Catherine to exploit information from. (In fact, I've got a feeling that this very scene will turn out to be pivotal later on. I think that lil' Savannah is going to share Catherine's plagiarized version of Ellison's story, with Ellison, who will then finally realize that Catherine isn't at all what she appears to be.)


    Or maybe she only keeps the kid around because Savannah is an excellent prop which helps the unnamed Cyborg better sell the Catherine persona she's adopted.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was being clever. Clever never works. I was saying that she the child of skynet is the mother of Skynet who is her father. Which is totally gender bent Jesus and God fucked up. I am my own grandpa. I was not talking about when she parroted to Savanah Ellis' bitter story about his pappy, but the scene when Catherine tells John Henry that "every thing she does she does for him", which clears up the point of contention in my mind that John Henry must be Skynet unless the line was slipped past the producers by accident.
     
  15. LutherSloan

    LutherSloan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I still think that Weaver is trying to make Skynet come into existence earlier and stronger than the first time, so that the machines win the war. We know from T1 that the machines were on the verge of defeat until they sent the T-800 back to 1984 to eliminate Sarah Connor (and John Connor by proxy). Granted, with all of the time traveling since then (only including T2 and TSCC continuity), the future is probably far different now.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sooner?

    That's the wrong direction.

    Skynet should want to be invented later. The later it's invented the more powerful it is, the faster and effectively it can destroy mankind. In the first movie we must have assumed that judgment day was going to happen still sometime in the 80s, in the sequel we find out Skynet "now" becomes self aware in 1997 which might ave something to do with the fact that man now has "skynet tech" to bolster a machine revolution of its own that might never have happened in an earlier rendition of the timeline, but it probably more had to do with the fall of communism leading to a one horse race as far as the super powers go that a missile defense shield was no longer necessary... In the third movie they're now saying that Judgment day is unavoidable even if it's been "delayed" till 2004 which means that Skynet would have been built out of different materials using different OS and platforms and probably even language, but now according to Cameron in one of the earlier episodes, the war beings in 2012.... Can you imagine how different the present right now would be if WWII started in the 20s or the 50s? the wrong people would be dead, and displacement would mean that the wrong people would be fucking and having the wrong babies and even the wrong people could win the war in the wrong way that the the atomic revolution might never have happened or both sides could have been flinging hundreds of nukes at one another, which in either case would mean that this conversation could not be happening.

    The longer it takes Sky net to be born, the more powerful it becomes and the more metrosexualy technology Dependant we become, that surviving 10 minutes without power after the bombs go off might prove maddening and we're easier to exterminate.

    I liked it how they explained that Jesse and Reese were from different timelines, but it took them weeks of fucking in secret before they noticed that they had never actually met each other before, rather than that they were mistaken that they were not each others timetwins who did have each others naked rights.

    You want to save man?

    Kill Thomas Edison.

    A few others.

    Leave us in the dark ages.
     
  17. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    ^ There is a comic book that explores this very possibility as you suggest. By bringing JD about earlier Skynet, in effect, makes itself weaker and more easily defeated. Though in this reality Sarah Connor didn't have a son, she had a daughter named Jane Connor.
     
  18. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    Not really though. Most rich women send their children away to boarding schools instead of keep them around. To really keep up the charade she should send her away.

    I'm just teasing.

    In reality I think that Savannah is an experiment that Weaver is doing to help her understand humanity and thus exploit it better. Savannah can help the T-1001 understand the growing Skynet as well.
     
  19. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    So, the ratings continue to fall. 5.82 > 5.25 > 5.29 > 3.71 > 3.84 > 3.42
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I blame the parents.

    Early bedtimes and age appropriate entertainment.

    This show is made for smart 12 year olds.

    Or younger kids that just love pissing themselves in terror.

    or explosions.

    The terror and the action.

    But now it's high school fucknig musical teaching good fucking moral fibres is what is being hammered int the next generation.

    God help us all.

    Skynet should send back a terminator to stop that movie.

    Of course, from what we saw in self made man, that if there is a terminator on scenethat notices a great enough disturbance in the timeline, they will assume the expired humans duties to see that the broader strokes of destiny more forward in a familiar fashion.