Temporal Cold War and the rest of Trek history

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Noddy, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Going back into the past, then travelling to Earth, would give ample time for any temporal policing authority to intervene. The Borg would be telegraphing their intentions.
     
  2. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    You quoted the wrong person (Elias Vaughn in a Mask said that).

    But it's not really inconsistent with Starfleet's mission at all. There really wasn't much information about the Borg for Starfleet to go on at the time, except second-hand accounts from the El-Aurians (who may not even have known where the Borg originated from or where they vanished to over seventy years earlier).
     
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But would Seven have "known" this prior to the events of First Contact?

    Prior to FC was that information missing from her and all Borg , because it never happen ... until after the timeline changed.

    It's possible that Picard was not referring the first contact between Kilngons and Humans, but instead between the Klingons and another species who would later become a federation member. Picard daily drinks the federation kool-aid.

    The El-Aurians who survived might not have known at the time who it was who was destroying them, Guinan could have come by that information in later years through listening to others stories.

    She put the pieces together.

    Time travel can change the established timeline, instead of things being left behind, exist objecs can be removed. In Yester year, Spock pet was killed when he was seven tears old, but in the unaltered prime time line the pet didn't die at that time (possibly surviving through Spock's adult years).

    Upon return to the present, Spock noted that the pet hadn't alway died at that time. It wasn't a predestined loop.


    :)
     
  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, you're quoting me, not GameOn.

    But yeah, it's possible that it wasn't until sometime after the destruction of their world that Guinan and Soran learned the Borg were responsible for it (being from a race of listeners scattered across the Galaxy, El-Aurians may know many things that the Federation has yet to learn).
     
  5. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    This is probably the key magic handwave line. Any explanation we can come up with, would be too primitive compared to Borg concepts of space and time.
     
  6. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because Regeneration was written 12 years after The Best of Both Worlds.

    Nothing is planned out in advance.
     
  7. Phanton

    Phanton Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    If time the universe and everything is holographic and each persons ‘imagination-action’ entropy conduits shape the reflections from the decoherent field dynamic, in real terms does this allow one to experience more than one existence with multiple outcomes in the same moment? Would imagination be a governing factor of times arrow be it a lifeline to a kind of cosmic potential where the future is more certain than the past because of itself? Why not.

    If we weave both the Trek and Real Universes’ with this thought then anything is possible anything can happen does happen and is allowed, objectively in holographic terms there need be no violation; just interference patterns on a largely unchanged canvas.
     
  8. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Because Starfleet officers don't know everything anymore than anyone else knows everything about their profession. The material pertaining to the Borg may have been classified and unavailable for Picard to access. It's possible he became aware of what happened at a later time, but wasn't aware when the events of "Q Who?" took place.

    --Sran
     
  9. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    It's possible they stumbled across a small amount of leaked information and used it begin their search for the Borg. The Hansens were clearly bright people, albeit somewhat misguided.

    And keep in mind that although Picard was important in the context of The Next Generation series, he was no more important than any other captain in Starfleet in-universe. Why would Starfleet have any reason to share with him classified data (assuming it was classified) about a species he'd never seen before?

    --Sran
     
  10. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Why would they have heard about that? Just because they studied Cochrane's life in detail doesn't mean they know every single thing that happened to him. A drunken rant like that would probably be passed off as rumor or innuendo than something worthy of serious consideration by Starfleet officers, if they'd have thought about it at all. Riker and LaForge were both taken aback by Cochrane's behavior throughout FC because the man didn't match up with the legend, at least not until he conducted his warp flight and helped bring about their future. Seeing his home planet from space for the first time was clearly a turning point for Cochrane, as he didn't resemble the legendary figure he was depicted as prior to that.

    It's unlikely either man would've known about the incident in question, and even if they did, it doesn't necessarily mean they'd have connected it with the events of FC despite their being there.

    --Sran
     
  11. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I agree with this. It's entirely possible there were rumors swirling about cybernetic beings from another part of the galaxy, but without any proof of their existence (as far as Picard or anyone else was aware), there would have been no reason to take the rumors seriously.

    Rumors about strange aliens crash-landing on Earth would be a big deal in our society because we've never encountered anything like that (that we know of), but for Starfleet officers whose lives revolve around all sorts of weird things, rumors about a race like the Borg wouldn't be much of anything to get excited about. Things changed after "Q Who?" because Picard realized the significance of the Borg threat, but to suggest that he'd have known anything about the Collective before is hard to believe.

    --Sran
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly. And Starfleet's resources weren't infinite. Like any other organization, they'd have to prioritize certain missions and projects to which their resources would be devoted. It's simply not good decision-making to utilize significant time and labor to chase down a centuries-old rumor without any current evidence that might give the rumor credibility. Now, once Picard and the Enterprise saw the Borg for themselves, it's possible someone at Starfleet made a connection and began devising solutions to the Borg problem. For all we know, that person may have been none other than Elizabeth Shelby, who was so important in helping thwart the attack on the Federation the following year.

    --Sran
     
  13. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^As a follow-up to my above points, also consider the following:

    The events of "The Neutral Zone" and the deadly force that Picard surmised was more powerful than either the Federation or the Romulans. It's likely Picard's hypothesis didn't make sense to anyone at the time it was postulated, but once the Collective was discovered, it became another piece of the Borg puzzle. Bits and pieces of information don't always make sense until they can be linked together to form something more complete. Strange cybernetic beings in and off themselves doesn't necessarily equal the Borg without more information.

    --Sran
     
  14. GameOn

    GameOn Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    There's far too much mental gymnastics involved in explaining all the continuity errors in Enterprise. In reality it's down to poor writing but in universe the best and most reasonable explanation to me is that it takes place in a different universe. Some people complain that the problems are no worse than the stuff in TOS but at the time TOS wasn't working with an established universe, Enterprise didn't have this excuse.
     
  15. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually, Enterprise had better in universe continuity than TNG and Voyager.
    And FAR better in universe continuity than TOS (the ~'TOS wasn't/didn't really care much about being in a self consistent universe' excuse being both unconvincing and irrelevant).
     
  16. ainmneacha_Nollag

    ainmneacha_Nollag Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    Sran, learn to use multiquote, six posts in a really short timeframe is bad form.
     
  17. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I know how to use the multiquote. The reason for my multiple replies was because I was responding to specific points one post at a time. Thank you.

    --Sran
     
  18. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    During an episode the title of which escapes me, Picard references Pearl Harbor and "Station Salem One" as examples of "sneak attacks". I really think that if he were part of the same timeline as the events in ENT, he wouldn't have not mentioned the Xindi attack on Florida.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    TOS has a series bible, detailing the workings of the Enterprise and it's universe (a version of which can be found in The Making of Star Trek), so they've no excuse for their mistakes and should be judged just the same as the rest.

    And furthermore TOS is Star Trek. The original, definitive article. TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are spin-offs made by others decades later.

    Voyager references the events of Star Trek: First Contact, as does Enterprise. Does that make Voyager part of this FC/ENT AU also? It crosses over at one time or another with TOS, TNG and DS9, so what does it make those? There's a lot more evidence that all these series' are interconnected than there is that they're separate timelines. Was that meant to be an alternate Riker who testified at Quinn's trial? Another Sulu which Tuvok flashed back to? Or a different Dominion that EMH Mk. 2 mentioned? No way. Just like the Federation which Archer founded at the end of Enterprise is the same one we see in the rest of the series and not some other version - if it was, it would completely undermine the entire premise of the show as a prequel to the Trek universe.

    You'd think Data would have known about "The Immunity Syndrome" when the Enterprise came across "a hole in space" in "Where Silence has Lease" (and Riker even asked him, point blank, if anything "even remotely similar" had been previously encountered!)
     
  20. ainmneacha_Nollag

    ainmneacha_Nollag Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    Not a problem. Just didn't want you to get an infraction for spamming.