Tal Shiar history in novels

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Noddy, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    I'm aware that Vulcan's Heart has the Tal Shiar formed in 2344, but the TOS novel Assignment: Eternity has it already in existence by 2269. What's the best way to resolve this discrepancy?
     
  2. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Squint a bit.

    Maybe the Tal Shiar was dissolved and then revived.

    Or maybe the reference to the Tal Shiar in Assignment: Eternity is only a single-line reference that's not actually important to the story, and you can mentally cross it out and replace it with "Romulan Foreign Intelligence Bureau" or whatever.
     
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Unfortunately, the Enterprise relaunch novels present us with a well-established Tal Shiar as early as the 2150s. I think it's a shame, myself - one thing I dislike in Trek is this situation wherein the same institutions and organizations exist throughout the timeline, fundamentally unchanged. It detracts from the sense of an evolving history which is part of what makes such a franchise compelling in the first place. I liked the idea of the Tal Shiar being a "recent" (2344) creation, even if it's really no different from a pre-existing bureau (something I believe Vulcan's Heart does indeed imply - that this is one of perhaps many "bright new nothing-like-the-old-corrupt-one, honest" agencies that have been spawned over modern Romulan history). That said, the suggestion that they were named for Shiarkiek seems to conflict with what are usually assumed to be the name's origin in Vulcan Tal Shaya.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe both of them are true, and they're (technically) not the same Tal Shiar.
     
  5. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Or that naming it 'Tal Shiar' formed a pretty irresistible double meaning that they simply had to run with. :) You don't get opportunities like that dropped into your lap every day.
     
  6. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure the Tal Shiar leaders have rewritten their history numerous times.

    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Tal_Shiar
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What is kind of weird is that the Vulcan's Heart version of the Tal Shiar appears to be named after the two Romulans (Tal and Shiarkiek) whom I would LEAST expect such a ruthless organization to ever be named after. Then again, I'm sure that its founders had the best intentions in mind when they formed it...they had no idea what it could mutate into. :(
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Similarly, the Romulan ship used to destroy Coridan in Kobayashi Maru was named after S'Task, who certainly would not have approved.
     
  9. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    The Tal Shiar definitely exists by 2269 in Assignment: Eternity.
     
  10. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    There's quite a bit of this in the Trek novels, and not just among the Romulans. It was never acknowledged in the book itself, but ch'Harnen in Fallen Gods was proudly commanding the Shran-class Shantherin th'Clane - quite ironic given his hostility to the Federation, since Shran and Therin are cultural heroes precisely due to their involvement in the Federation.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Hardly unprecedented for historical figures to be invoked in the name of causes they would have abhorred.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    If you had said that to me in 1980, when Therin of Andor was conceived, I would never have believed it. :techman:

    [​IMG]
    Ian McLean as Therin of Andor, 1980 by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

    You can go far, even as a redshirt. With a cardboard phaser.
     
  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    True story: The Tal Shiar business was a late addition to Assignment: Eternity. Originally, the antagonists were a bunch of well-meaning Romulan scientists and dissidents. I had this notion that I was going to write a book with no villains, just three factions of good guys with conflicting agendas, but this just wasn't working dramatically, probably because it was tricky enough generating conflict between Kirk and Seven without keeping the Romulans on the side of the angels, too, so I finally said, "screw it, let's turn these good-guy Romulans into Tal Shiar and add an assassination or two" . . . and, voila, the plot took off from there!