T.W.O.K vs STID

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Infern0, Oct 13, 2013.

?

vote

  1. I prefer the Wrath of Khan

    110 vote(s)
    72.4%
  2. I Prefer Into Darkness

    17 vote(s)
    11.2%
  3. I like them both the same

    25 vote(s)
    16.4%
  1. Mario de Monti

    Mario de Monti Captain Captain

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    Sorry guys, I think you´re idolizing TWOK a bit too much. When it comes to the filming style and similar "technicalities" see my post above - that is just a matter of personal preference. But as a follow-up to the almost cerebral TMP, TWOK was quite a drastic departure: it was action packed with space battles, had plenty of blood and violence, a ruthless, homicidal maniac for a villain and it totally changed the look and feel established in TMP. It was a Trek action movie that seemed to try to get a piece of the "Star Wars pie". And it´s filled with plot-holes and other things that make no sense.

    Don´t get me wrong, I still love that movie dearly. However, I´m well aware of it´s flaws, but I can disregard them when I watch it to not spoil my enjoyment of it - just as I can in STID. TWOK is definitely not a classic motion picture masterpiece like "Citizen Kane" or "2001" - just a fun and entertaining SF film. And that´s ok :)

    Mario
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's classic. :lol:
     
  3. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location? What is this?
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw-YsBeqHx0[/yt]
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Both scenes were really well-done.
     
  5. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I highly doubt Benedict Cumberbatch's Khan is going to be quoted by someone like Quentin Tarantino in twenty years.

    I see nothing iconic or standing out in STD. Major points in the film are just rehashed from the previous film (Enterprise rising out of the clouds, the space jump, Kirk's promotion/demotion thing, etc...), and the emotional climax of the film is taken from TWOK, just with reversed roles. Cumberbatch just chews on his dialogue like it was a Lion chocolate bar, but if you take that away, it's just really shallow talk. Some characters, like Carol Marcus, are just in there for fan service but serve no real purpose. The film wouldn't lose anything if you removed her character from the script.

    The only memorable thing is the Enterprise rising out of the water. And that's just a cool visual effects shot for the sake of it, but there was no meaning behind it.
     
  6. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've never heard of a "Lion chocolate bar"...
     
  7. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Curious then that it should be a Trek action movie so obviously based on the submarine movie genre and not Star Wars? I'd say rather that TWOK was the apotheosis in cinematic form of what made Trek a distinctive franchise -- the translation of popular non-SF dramatic / action formats into an SF setting.
     
  8. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And even then the whole concept made no sense whatsoever.

    The planet they were at seemed to be pre-industrial, so no form of sensor technology. The ship could have stayed in orbit and monitored the cultural study and then planet-saving mission(s)--every other starship sent to observe pre-warp cultures manages to do it just fine from space. Also if the volcano was so destructive that it would wipe out the planets population, why risk the ship by having it anywhere near the surface?
     
  10. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I found STID too hyperactive. Explosions and firefights every 20 minutes.

    It's a blockbuster first, movie second. Khan, the Klingons, Section 31 everything thrown at you at once with tons and tons of high paced action scenes.

    I'm still trying to accept the premise of how the crew was promoted so quickly and thrown together in such a short time.

    The sense of camaraderie from experience and serving years together isn't there with this kind of background story line.

    So when Spock yells Khaaaannn!!, is it really effective?
     
  11. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No. Funny, though.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    It's so obviously borrowing on Shatner's much more effective yell. After all, Kirk had such a magnificent set of lungs, we heard him all the way through the crust of the Genesis planet and out into space, where sound can't travel due to space being a vacuum.

    (And don't anybody come along and snarkily point out that Kirk was yelling into a communicator, 'k? I know that.)

    Spock's death in TWOK was effective, because there was no guarantee that Leonard Nimoy would come back to the role. We really didn't know what would happen.

    In this movie, it was painfully obvious that nuKirk wouldn't stay dead. It's like when most modern soap characters die - the audience knows it's probably not forever, or even for very long, as the writers will either retcon what happened or pull out some bizarre plot twist to make it unhappen. That's what this nuTrek movie did with nuKhan's blood.
     
  13. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. There was no way there wasn't going to be a sequel. :)

    I don't rate Quinto's lungs any lesser than Shatner's, but in terms of character motivation? TWOK wins, hands down. It's not even a contest.
     
  14. Bagliun Edar

    Bagliun Edar Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I prefer the Wrath of Khan, but I like Into Darkness too.
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Yet in '82 and '83, fans were complaining in Interstat and Trek magazine that Wrath of Khan had turned Star Trek into a Star Wars-style shoot-em-up while making several unwanted changes to the characters and core of the series - you know, just like fans say now about ST'09 and ID.

    It's only considered "what made Trek distinctive" because in it established the look which all pre-TNG Trek used for the next 30 years.
     
  16. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree. :vulcan:
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They could've at least left us hanging between movies 2 and 3 or something... it kinda cheapens the whole noble sacrifice scene when you're revived a few minutes later.

    Too bad they didn't save any of that magic blood for Pike.
     
  18. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    People have a look and sound to them. I had known Nimoy-as-Spock for many years and adventures. His death affected me because he was an old friend dying, and valiantly to boot. Pine-Kirk I have not seen and heard many times and on many different adventures. His death didn't affect me. Plus I knew he wouldn't stay dead.

    No comparison. Plus I don't like hyper, smashy-crashy movies. Only saw this once and won't watch it on dvd. No biggie.
     
  19. maneth

    maneth Captain Captain

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    I just watched TWOK again after five years, and I must admit that I liked it a lot better this time, because I didn't watch Space Seed before the movie. Khan was a pretty good villain when he didn't have any women to charm around him...
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So in a standalone movie with new characters, no death scene affects you?