Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Obiwanshinobi, Jan 30, 2011.
And the early comics which drove the inspiration for Burton's films.
Yeah I am a fan of both Burton's "Batman" and Nolan's "Batman Begins" for giving us two different examinations of the character of Bruce Wayne. The two actors that played also gave two completely different and distinct looks. I suspect that Henry Cavil will do the same with Clark Kent/Superman in "Man of Steel". I'm looking very much forward to the journey aspect of Clark Kent's character. "Superman: The Movie" told a version of this by having Jor-El "train" him in the Fortress of Solitude. "Smallville" had Clark go through a series of life experiences. I suspect that "Man of Steel" will do a bit of both but be more in tune with what "Batman Begins" did while being it's own movie. If that makes sense.
Quite right. I stand corrected on that point. Batman did indeed kill in the early comics, and he also used a gun.
That's his rationalization. More simply:
Bruce was traumatized as a young child by seeing his parents murdered.
Bruce deals with that by dressing up as a bat and sneaking out at night to beat people up.
Lucky for us he's a good judge of character.
I don't see "Bruce Wayne" as aloof either. He's a rich wastrel playboy. Something that Bruce Wayne has taken great care to cultivate. He wants people to look askance at "Bruce Wayne" and dismiss him as a worthless child of privilege. Making him aloof, mysterious or eccentric makes him interesting to prying eyes. Making him a skilled business man also puts the wrong kind of spotlight on him. Better that folks think Fox is the real brains and power behind Wayne Enterprises. "Bruce Wayne" shouldnt be awkward (thats Kent's schtick) either. He should project the sort of arrogance that comes with wealth. power and privilege. If asked about samurai armor, he should fein ignorance about its origin and talk about the price tag or "cool factor".
Except that even billionaire playboys have eccentric interests and using their money they buy and collect expensive/eccentric things like Samurai armour. It didn't make Bruce look smart or whatever when he pointed it out to Knox (besides which he was really trying to impress Vicki and wanted to make Knox look like an arse). Bruce Wayne is a man of many complexities and discipline's that he utilizes to keep the public guessing about him. That's the point.
This is going to be a ridiculous thread for another two years of going off topic when there is nothing to discuss. It also looks like I was correct about the "Man of Steel" Vancouver shoot being mostly all interior shooting, which usually takes place inside a studios (I wonder if they're going to be using the old Smallville studios?) the sets have been all dismantled and destroyed but the main buildings still stand. I was excited about getting an opportunity to maybe get some set photos but if they're doing all interior shooting there isn't much point being excited.
While it might have justified Burton going that root, I can't say it was necessarily an inspiration. If they were truly going back to roots, he would have had a gun. The "Batman doesn't kill" rule was instituted pretty early in his comics in spite of what took place before it.
Besides which, hasn't Burton stated that he was inspired a great deal by Frank Miller's "Year One" and "The Dark Knight Returns"? I think that he states this in the "Batman" audio commentary.
I think Burtan's Batman didnt want to kill, but thge Joker forced him to "kill', Batman tried to rescue the Joker, but couldn't. From a movie perspective,The good guy has to kill the bad guy. This has changed since the 90s, now the good guy doesn't have to do that, he can capture him so to ensure a sequel. Lewt's not forget, had Leadge not died, we'd have a very dufferebt sequel.
Regaeding this movie, I hope we still see a "Boy Scout" Supeman with a bit of optomism that Batman doesn't posses.
This comment comes up frequently, but I have read a number of the early 1939 Detective Comics with Batman. He has his bat cable, his batarang, a version of the batmobile, but I have never seen a comic when he used a gun. I am not saying that he didn't but I would certainly like to take a look at these stories for myself.
Can someone please refer me to a specific comic or two?
This article might help.
Modern Batman almost never uses a gun. Now an air interception missile? Mommy didn't die from a missile.
Actually, one of those covers suggests a great Elseworlds story idea that I don't think has ever been done. What would happen if Bruce Wayne got drafted?
I call it Batman: Dark Conscientious Objector.
P.S. on that one where it turns out Batman's a crack sniper (yeah, whatever), I really love the THE END written in the shadow of his cape. That's cool.
Modern Batman used ONE gun The archetypal gun in fact in order to "kill" Darkseid. But yah he doesn't use a gun and finds them horrid in general.
Okay, okay, I forgot.
Yo, this is sort of on topic, but with Superman, has there ever been a story about how he feels about/justifies all the people who die when he's just hanging out? I will also accept the Flash.
I mean, it's trivial to morally justify, but I'm mainly curious if it's been acknowledged that Superman sometimes hears people dying or in danger and just doesn't do anything about it.
I can't think of a specific story about Clark's feelings on that. I know that recently Judd Winnick wrote a flashback to post Final Crisis story dealing with Superman's feelings about losing Batman, as well as having opposing feelings regarding Dick's decision to take up the mantle.
I'm pretty sure that he has regretted the loss of all of his friends or family. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are talking about.
Maybe? I just mean the random flatscans who get into car accidents, that sort of thing. Like there's this guy who goes through his windshield in northern Virginia and he's bleeding all over the pavement, crying for Superman to save him, but Clark's watching America's Next Top Model with Lois in time he's blocked off for himself and his own relationships.
Would the situation change if it were in Metropolis? Like, does Superman have a standing policy, "You are unlikely to be rescued outside of the Metropolis city limits, be alive at your own risk"? Would the situation change if it were, I dunno, Green Arrow who got into a car accident and he was using his last life essence to jam on his JLA signal device?
I ask because it's sort of implicit this happens. We know Clark has some kind of personal life, if a somewhat circumscribed one. People do still die in accidents in the DCU, people get killed all over the world, and heaps and heaps of people get brutally murdered down the road in the no-fly zone Batman's established in Gotham.
So, does he feel bad? He can hear the cries for help.
Take it a step further, we know he doesn't topple governments, regardless of how shitty they are, so does he feel bad when a dissenter is executed in the PRC, listening all the while and doing nothing?
I want to think I either read a comic or read about a comic where they explained, "Yeah, it happens, but if I just operated as Superman around the clock, abandoned my wife, gave up my life, started saving everyone from everything, and everyone from everyone else, I'd eventually get so weird and out-of-touch and inhuman and arrogant that I'd wind up conquering you and making you wear clothes made out of bubble wrap for your own protection." Not a verbatim transcript, of course.
I saw a reading of the first two books of Batman: Odyssey last night, and Batman uses a gun to shoot at ciminals in that story. Now, Odyssey is undoubtably the work of a disturbed mind, but it was published 2010-2011. So, there is a long-standing precedent of Batman using firearms.
I think Clark sometimes feels overwhelmed by the sheer number of people that he can't save. I think "Superman Returns" sort of touched on this when he takes Lois up and he tells her that he hears everyone crying out for help. There have been references that Clark over works himself as well and has to be told by Lois, or others that he needs to rest and "can't be everywhere at once". This was something that kind was banged on to "Smallville" Clark a number of times. I believe though he feels bad when "normals" or civilians die when he can't help them. Sure.
I also thought the same thing. I guess that should make the Smallville fans happy.
Or a bumbling cumbersome nerd.
Separate names with a comma.