STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mountie1988, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Plus, we simply just don't know how readily available protomatter is?
     
  2. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nonsense. Khan took the data from Regula One's computers. Also, being not part of the official record doesn't mean the files don't exist.
     
  3. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Do we know he stripped the computers? All he has is the control module and the torpedo. In fact we know he didn't get the data, the databanks were wiped.

    Can't find a clip online so MA, will have to do.

    The movie:
    And at least one version of the STIII script makes it clear David hid it:

    Khan had a one off WMD and a small starship. He wasn't some major threat. Worse he could do is nuke Earth or some other planet and end up dead real quick afterwards--if he got close enough to do it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  4. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Yeah, billions of lives lost is not a threat at all... Come on, man! A planet dying is not something one should shrug their shoulders at!


    Besides, to back up your previous point. We already know Khan didn't get the data from his engagement with Kirk. He wanted all "data and material" as far as Genesis was concerned. Which means at no point did he have anything but Genesis itself in his hands. Still, I think with time his people could have figured the weapon out in detail and made more.
     
  5. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    1) Sorry but in an interstellar community, one planet is no big deal. Would be horrible? Of course, but it's a self limiting threat. But it isn't a big deal in terms of the galactic powers. Even the destruction of Earth in Enterprise is treated as another bad day and they just pack up and head for a new planet.

    2) Remember, only David had the true secret of Genesis. Khan and his people start fumbling around they would most likely blow them selves to hell and back. Remember Protomatter isn't safe by ANYONE's standard. The fact it didn't cook off in the lab is probably a small miracle.
     
  6. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's an extremely perplexing attitude. But anyway:

    1. Earth is the capital of said interstellar community, so its destruction would have vast repercussions.

    2. Khan had to know things could only end one way. It was just a question of how much he wanted to take with him on the way down. Same applied to STiD. The Vengeance might have been powerful, but wouldn't stand up to an onslaught from the fleet.
     
  7. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    1) Earth might be the Capital, but taking it out isn't going to destroy the Federation or even humanity for that matter. Earth can be replaced. Other than causing a temporary disruption in leadership, most planets wouldn't even notice. The only real issue would be the Federation going to war with whomever nuked the planet. If it was Khan he's dead before he leaves the sector, so move on to the business to hand of transferring power.

    2) Bingo, for all his posturing, Khan--either version--is very short sighted.
     
  8. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't that my point to begin with?
     
  9. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    If I missed or glossed over your point, my apologies. But it's a very obvious character flaw in both version of the character, I don't see how it gets missed? Khan is not really the uber-threat fandom makes him out to be. Bad ass? Yes. Long term threat? Nah.

    However, I will say with Vengeance he has more potential for damage on multiple targets: Warp in *boom* warp out, warp in *boom* warp out.
     
  10. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Assuming he got what he wanted, I'm not sure that he can make more of those things. I mean, he's not exactly a 23rd century physicist.
     
  11. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What if Khan used the Genesis device strategically? Not to destroy Earth or another planet with billions of inhabitants, but he destroys a key strategic Klingon colony? Imagine a Starfleet ship enters the colony's space, Khan delivers the device, and away he goes. The scale of the destruction would be shocking, and the Klingons would not know it was a one-off attack. For all they know, it's just the beginning. They could logically think it was a surprise attack by the Federation and retaliate. So, Khan could possibly start a war that would be very costly in lives and resources across many planets.

    If the Feds tried to explain, why would the Klingons believe any Federation explanation that the device was stolen and the attack an act of terror by an individual? In any case, they would blame the Federation and want retribution.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  12. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well he was able to design weapons and starships in STiD...
     
  13. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good point Belz.

    I'm guessing a year passed between ST 09 and STID in the timeline, and even giving Khan the luxury of one whole year to get up to speed, he ain't no android or Data!
     
  14. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    No assuming. We know the databanks were wiped. He had a one shot weapon, and no one that new the secret.
     
  15. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :brickwall:
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    In Space Seed it only took a few hours for Khan to figure out how to disable several of the Enterprise's systems and take over the ship. Imagine what he could do with more time and resources.
     
  17. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    It's not a plot hole at all. Kirk gave Khan the opportunity to punish him in a more fitting manner than simply killing him. He's going to do to Kirk exactly what Kirk did to him and his wife. Justice. He wasn't settling for anything, he was getting an even better revenge. Hell, Khan flat-out says this. Whether you like that turn or not, it's not a plot hole.
     
  18. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Except that he wanted to kill Kirk before that, and he wanted to kill him afterwards. It may not be a plot hole, but it could be considered out of character considering his actions everywhere else in the movie.
     
  19. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Yes it is. But we've already been over this.
     
  20. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    No it isn't. The character explains his actions right there in the scene.