STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mountie1988, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    The impulse engines were also online. Even if they were dying, just that little extra push would have been enough to tip her over the the edge.
     
  2. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is this the Romulan Neutral Zone or the neutral zone between the Federations and Klingons? I have never heard that phrase be used before to describe the buffer zone between Federation and Klingon territory.
     
  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    So you've never watched TWOK then?
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was used in The Wrath of Khan during the Kobayashi Maru test.
     
  5. Mountie1988

    Mountie1988 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Right. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?
     
  6. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek VI too, when Sulu was ordered to obey the treaty and stay outside the Neutral Zone.
     
  7. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    They have, and that if you watch, the Vengeances last few phaser and torpedo impacts are hitting one side of the ship and shoving her in that direction, the Enterprise was under the influence of several kinetic forces, none of which she had the power to stop.
     
  8. Mountie1988

    Mountie1988 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    And in The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier and twice in The Undiscovered Country.
    Man, you have to watch your Star Trek.
     
  9. Mountie1988

    Mountie1988 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I feel like we have wronged STID. A new thread should be installed solely to explain and justify wannabee-plotholes
     
  10. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't Ln X the self-proclaimed "astute viewer" of Star Trek?
     
  11. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    So he claimed.
     
  12. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've seen all of TNG, DS9 and VOY plus parts of TOS and ENT. I've seen all the Trek movies when I was younger but most of the Trek movies I watched the most was TUC and all of the TNG films.
     
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    So you admit then, when you dispute any comparisons between the plot-logic of STiD and TWOK that you're basically posting from a position of ignorance?

    It's perfectly fine to not have seen all the films. But you implied a stronger knowledge of the TOS films than you now claim to have all in the spirit of attacking others. That's a bit disingenuous don't you think?
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Astute" is just a speedier way to say "ass toot". ;)
     
  15. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have seen all the Trek films and I'm making general comparisons. I've got the story synopsis on Memory Alpha to check some of the finer nuances and Trek Core to watch particular scenes we are all discussing about.

    I don't make any claim to saying that I know TOS inside out, not at all. TNG, DS9 and VOY I do know inside out especially DS9, but I've seen enough TOS and read enough story synopsis to get by.

    But I always avoid trying to compare the main characters from TOS with the main characters of NuTrek. Because of the altered timeline (and technically it's an alternate universe if you consider the various cosmetic changes) I feel NuTrek characters are unique. Thus for me I find it is hard to ascribe traits and ones knowledge of the TOS characters onto the NuTrek characters.

    So it's kind of like a clean slate and what we know about the NuTrek characters stems from strictly the NuTrek films because of this altered timeline. I feel its important to appreciate this. For example I've watched Star Trek 09 several times and every time I got to the bit where NuKirk is promoted I thought it made sense because this is Kirk we're talking about!

    But I've recently realised my mistake because what I was thinking of was TOS Kirk. NuKirk is a clean slate and so because of that I had no choice but to more thoroughly examine why NuKirk was promoted. Which means teasing over the premise (altered timeline and so forth). This also means that STID has got to validate the NuTrek premise and, hopefully, try to fill in -- to the best of its ability -- any cracks to the premise.
     
  16. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay, I've taken a look at the scene where the K'normian ship flies to Kronos and here's what I think happens, based on my knowledge of film editing:
    [​IMG]
    Trade ship launches.

    [​IMG]
    Trade ship keeps flying.

    [​IMG]
    Camera moves to reveal planet, then cuts to face trade ship as it approaches planet.

    [​IMG]
    Camera pans from trade ship to planet (Kronos).

    Based on the rules of cinema about preserving the direction of motion and using editing to keep the audience aware of what's going on, it's highly probable that the planet is intended to be Kronos. So that means the Enterprise is literally inside Klingon space unless Kronos' orbit takes it really close to the Klingon edge of the Neutral Zone.
     
  17. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not a plot hole per se, but... Having just seen Space Seed again, how about the part where TWOK completely ditched the seed part out of Space Seed, and instead of letting Khan's populate Ceti Alpha V, used him as a device to fill a single plot for a single film? That alone is a truck of outrage STID shares no part in.

    Aaand.... Now that Khan is alive in the new timeline, they could give him a planet and explore that in a TNG reboot series as it was always intended!
     
  18. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Here's you problem: The movie directly states that they are on the edge of the Neutral Zone. So it doesn't matter what you think the visual shows, the movie flat out states that they're on the edge when Marcus shows up.
     
  19. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well if you listen to the radio chatter about the battle there is a call for re-enforcements. So you could say that they were answering a distress call. i.e. we are getting beaten here and heed help.
     
  20. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Hell, I'd say letting Picard retain command of the Enterprise after the events of BoBW was a plot hole going all the way back to TNG. He was compromised by the enemy, whether under the Borg's control or not, he led the assault on Earth, and was allowed to retain command of the flagship--that's just fucking stupid right there.