STID's plot holes unrivaled?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mountie1988, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. Mountie1988

    Mountie1988 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Deliberately. There's no gain in denying the internet's subjugation by blockheads
     
  2. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Khan had a flash of wicked inspiration? I've seen that scene several times and you see the cogs in Khan's head whirring away. Ain't nothing wrong with that nor is a devastating plothole so bad it ruins your enjoyment of TWOK.
     
  3. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Three cheers also for Abram's apologists! Bless you laddies and lasses. Trek's going to the gutter and we're all cheering and singing its praises! :)
     
  4. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Nor are any of the plot holes in STiD.

    :rolleyes:
     
  5. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Look, I loved STXI even with it's flaws, but we're talking about a movie whose plot literally wouldn't happen if a) Admiral Marcus and Section 31 were competent enough to put a bomb in Khan's body or b) Khan simply beamed himself on to the Vengeance's bridge, killed everyone there, vented the ship's atmosphere, and taken it to Earth to get his vengeance.

    These are horrifically obvious options that are being missed, not subtle points that require much analysis and thought to find.
     
  6. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    And WOK was a movie that wouldn't have happened had Chekov of Terrell stopped for directions. Or, you know, counted to six and got stuck on five.
     
  7. Mountie1988

    Mountie1988 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    More than First Contact? The question is... might all these issues just arise because STID is the latest installment in a franchise that has always been abased by its own fans?
     
  8. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And that's my point. The plot holes in STID were not the main reason for dragging it down, it was some really shoddy characterization (plus dialogue) and that god-awful ending! STID undermined the NuTrek premise because it made it even more painfully obvious that Kirk should not be placed anywhere near starships.

    You know I always thought Kirk being promoted from ensign to captain was kind of plausible because he's Kirk and all. But STID made it painfully obvious that Kirk is a juvenile hothead and Spock should have been made captain. These ain't TOS characters folks, they are not even TOS characters when they're younger. They're new characters from a different universe and you can not project the gravitas and familiarity of the TOS characters onto the NuTrek characters because the NuTrek characters are different people.

    Maybe that's why Spock pulled a hulk and cried like a baby as Kirk was dying. But for NEW characters they are surprisingly hollow when you consider the now wasted potential of this the NuTrek premise.
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    You like it more so you make up excuses and forgive it's plotholes.
     
  10. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you!

    I mean seriously are people really going to say that whatever plot holes are in STID are worse then an inability to count to f@#king six?
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Khan could have completely pulverized every bit of the Enterprise except for the bridge before making contact with Kirk during the first Reliant attack, but didn't.

    Khan could have beamed up Kirk along with Genesis, killed him and been on his merry way, with his WMD in hand.

    These are horrifically obvious options that are being missed, not subtle points that require much analysis and thought to find.
     
  12. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is it really a plot hole when a character decides to settle on stranding his enemy for all eternity and blowing up his crippled ship after two failed attempts at killing said enemy? It's way more plausible than, say, stuffing people you want to keep alive inside of torpedoes with live warheads.
     
  13. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well obviously. A good film makes you overlook the plotholes but when the logic begins to seriously fail and fall apart -- especially when STID wants everyone to take it seriously -- then the astute viewer is going to do just that and ask why this story has been so poorly thought out. STID is trying to portray itself as a thoughtful and intelligent movie when it is anything but.


    bullethead, I think you are one of the few voices of reason on this board!

    Khan changed his mind; he thought of a better way to get his vengeance due to an opportunity presenting itself. It is that simple as that! It is not really a plothole if you can come up with a plausible reason for explaining this apparent 'inconsistency'.
     
  14. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    "Well obviously. A good film makes you overlook the plotholes but when the logic begins to seriously fail and fall apart -- especially when TWOK wants everyone to take it seriously -- then the astute viewer is going to do just that and ask why this story has been so poorly thought out. TWOK is trying to portray itself as a thoughtful and intelligent movie when it is anything but."

    Do you see how this works now?
     
  15. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Yes, and when he hears Kirk's voice, and what he says to Kirk, it becomes clear that he changed his mind, and why not? Khan had taken control of one of the most potentially devastating weapons ever devised and Kirk's voice is obviously reflecting that he's lost control. "You're going to HAVE to come down here...!" Grasping. Why wouldn't Khan let him live to suffer? Knowing the Enterprise will be destroyed and Kirk will be presumed dead by anyone coming to look.


    Well, y'know, to Kirk's (and the writers) credit. He admitted as much while talking to Spock. Which justifies what has happened into the story up to that point. I was never happy that Kirk was promoted so fast, but that scene in STID where Kirk owned up to everything that had happened and basically said "Yeah, I have no idea what i'm doing." It cleaned that slate for me. It was a great moment for the new version of Kirk.

    STID isn't a perfect film, but it is by no means the worst. I'd even go as far as to say I had a lot of fun with it and would put it in the higher end of the curve.

    Even if it does have a number of flaws, you know what it doesn't have? Large quantities of boredom. And I don't mean "Slow paced" I mean "I couldn't care less about the plot or the characters because it's so pat and dull." IE, most of the TNG movies.
     
  16. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :guffaw:

    You can polish a turd but it will still remain a turd. When the third NuTrek film comes out you'll see what has happened, just give it a few years. I and quite a few fans are ahead of the curve you see, we know where this trainwreck is going and we understand why Star Trek is -- at this moment -- creatively bankrupt.

    But I'll give you one clue- style over substance.
     
  17. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Forget that:

    1) We have to assume that there is no official record of Kirk exiling Khan. Ignoring the logs and flight records made during Space Seed, and Kirk having to explain where a member of his crew went too. As well as shutting up everyone on the ship about the fact that 72 super humans captured a frontline starship.

    2) Chekov is a fucking idiot. Forgetting counting to six, how hard is it to say "Oh Ceti Alpha System? Yeah, Captain Kirk beamed down some guy named Khan--who will straight up kill us if he finds us--to a planet in this system, we better be on the look out"

    3) Genesis cave: The tunnels were a staging area. Soooo...where's the transporter pads? The labs? Some way to beam up to the station or a ship. Starfleet really is an OSHA violation if they had engineers craving out tunnels with the only way out being to wait on someone on the station to beam 'em up. Hate for there to be an accident when the transporter operator went to take a piss.

    TWOK hinges on everyone in Starfleet and especially the Enterprise crew being incompetent at their jobs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it also needs Khan to be the "superior moron" as well. :techman:
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    What a fucking joke. It can never be as creatively bankrupt as it was in the late-90's/early-00's.
     
  20. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that's a point we can all agree on.
     

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