STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Opus, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    No worries, Sindatur. I've been trying to be better at expressing myself on the message boards I visit. My apologies for coming off that way. I can assure you I am rarely, if ever, hostile or hurt.

    This is a rare moment that I have started a thread and I'm still learning the ropes, even after all these years. :) I hope people come in and debate, agree and disagree about the posts I've put up because I find them interesting that they are similar in many respects to posts made here by those who have been disappointed with STiD, Abrams and the current state of Trek.
     
  2. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    These criticisms seem...familiar somehow.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder which Roddenberry ideology these films neglected. Roddenberry circa 1966 or Roddenberry circa 1987? :lol:
     
  4. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    I'm guessing either.
     
  5. CrazyHorse89

    CrazyHorse89 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Since when was Star Trek an ideology? The last time I checked, it was a television show and a series of movies. It would help if die-hard Abrams haters actually elaborated upon terms and phrases such as the 'philosophy of Trek' and 'Gene's vision'.

    For what it's worth, I think that STID dealt with a lot of contemporary political and social issues, including the morality of preventative/preemptive war and unmanned drone strikes, the rights and wrongs of terrorism, and the security v liberty nexus.
     
  6. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Since Gene spent that wild weekend at the place just south of Tuscan enjoying the fruits and rye of the local cacti.
     
  7. CrazyHorse89

    CrazyHorse89 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I forgot about that!
     
  8. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    Apparently Trek became a religion shortly before Abrams took over, that's why his changes are treated like rebooting the Bible by some fans.

    Also for what it's worth, I think that STID dealt with ideas that we should explain and was a lot more critical of our civilization than any other Trek movie or show has ever been. Usually they paint a guy white and black then use it as an example of how wrong and silly racism is and how Earth doesn't do that anymore. STID took the high and mighty Federation and showed them doing terrible things for the greater good.

    We needed that because we see ourselves as the heroes, not the silly primitive aliens with funny foreheads. But we're doing some terrible things and we ignore it because we want to see ourselves as the heroes instead of the country that sends drones to kill people and wind up killing a lot of innocent people. That's not who we're supposed to be and we need to stop.
     
  9. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The suggestion in one of the quotes that the writers had never watched Star Trek before is kind of laughable in light of the fact that STID is also widely criticized for ripping off prior Trek.
     
  10. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Gene Rodenberry was a visionary, no doubt about that. However, not every idea that he had was a good one, to pretend so is foolish. Gene wasn't a big fan of WOK from what I hear and that's widely considered to be the best Star Trek movie ever made. If we followed "Gene's vision" then DS9 would probably never have been made, and we certainly wouldn't have gotten the Dominion War. Gene never wanted significant conflicts amongst crew members, which is both boring and unrealistic. He was a great creator, but certainly not a perfect one.
     
  11. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    MLK was a visionary. Roddenberry used an easily palatable tag-line to help peddle his wares and started to believe his own rhetoric late in his life.
     
  12. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    Is the idea that in the future we'll all be nice to each other really a visionary idea? I wasn't alive in the 60s, but was that a totally alien concept?
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    This.
     
  14. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Whatever, maybe visionary isn't the best word, so sue me. My point is, Gene had a lot of great ideas and is still talked about today. However, not every idea that he had was the right one.
     
  15. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, he didn't.
     
  16. Khan444

    Khan444 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, he did, but lets not start a huge argument over this. Again the point is that when some fans claim that "Rodenberry would be rolling over in his grave" at JJ's Trek, I don't necessarily think that's true, or that JJ has to follow Gene's way of doing things.
     
  17. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And this is why the rest of the world thinks we're morons, because of comments like that.
     
  18. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    I'm thankful that the other fandoms I'm in don't have ideologies, I wish Trek would drop it as well. Trek is a franchise with some good stories, that's about it. It isn't a guide map to our future or even realistic on any level.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Blasphemy... BURN THE WITCH :devil: ;)
     
  20. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    You'll never take me alive.
    *hops on broom and flies away*