STID and the Eugenics Wars books

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Noddy, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    It's not as if STID would be the first instance of televised Trek with a portrayal of Khan and/or the EW that's not entirely consistent with Greg's novels. ENTERPRISE already established that between 30 and 35 million people were killed in the conflicts, which is a lot more than in the books.
     
  2. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Not to mention the introduction of a new term, "Augments," to describe Khan and his genetically-engineered ilk.

    And, yeah, I could have used a handy term like that . . . . :)
     
  3. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    That's not really a contradiction though. It could have been a term applied to Khan and his brethren long after the Wars.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    And which fell out of use by Kirk's time . . . .
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, since no one in STID said Augment, it works.
     
  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    If I recall, the city exterior shots we saw in ST09 were from Spock's childhood flashbacks. There's no particular reason to assume that the city we saw had to be ShiKahr -- after all, in the era of transporters, a child can presumably attend school in any city whose timezone won't completely throw off his sleep cycle.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Vulcan city is identified as Shi'kahr in the "Spock's Birth" deleted scene.

    Although really, if Saavik can be Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis, Kirk can be William Shatner and Chris Pine etc etc., Shi'kahr can be the same place whether it looks the way it looks in "Yesteryear", "Kir"Shara" or STXI. The exact layout of the city matters exactly as much as James T. Kirk's eye colour does.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    There's something of a mood-setting element there, though. The town in "Yesteryear" (and "Amok Time"-R!) looked very much like a place from which a kid could engage in an unscheduled walk through the desert; the city in STXI would require him to fight his way through an urban jungle first... It doesn't look as if the stalaktite-groundscrapers would ever give way to a "suburb" of the sort that would facilitate Spock wandering off.

    OTOH, the balcony on which Amanda stares at Nero's huge tool in action could well be part of a condo similar to the one seen in TAS.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I was about to ask if you would care to rephrase that, but it occurred to me that, "Amanda stares at Nero's drill" is not much better.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I know that, but deleted scenes aren't canonical information, so I didn't mention it as a "fact."
     
  11. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    Since Mr. Cox is here at times..maybe he or someone else can refresh my memory since I haven't read bis great books in several.years....

    When seven and roberta destroyed the facility and saved the Augment kids...did they discuss sending the kids to be raised by the Aegis as seven was?...it seems like it should have been an option that would at least be considered as opposed to letting them run loose on earth
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ They probably reasoned that it would be interfering with the timeline if they did that. Seven was well aware of what was supposed to happen in the future. If the kids were raised by the Aegis, they couldn't fulfill their destiny in the Eugenics Wars, which are a necessary historical event.
     
  13. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    Did he? I thought he had limited info.which is.why he couldn't stop them sooner not that he chose to wait to fulfill some predestination paradox
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That doesn't mesh with my understanding of the books, in which Seven doesn't seem to know that the EW are coming...or if he did, he never shares that knowledge with Roberta.

    Perhaps he was given knowledge of the future in the long-term, but not, say, the next century or so.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ The first time we meet Seven in TOS, he is intervening to stop a historical event that he already knows about (the launch of the orbital weapons platform). So if he knew about that, it stands to reason that he could know about events that are even MORE major.
     
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That may be, but nothing in the books seems to indicate that he has advance knowledge of the EW.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Even if Seven didn't know about the EW, I'm sure the Aegis did. So if Seven had tried to pawn off the Augment kids on the Aegis, they'd have rejected it.
     
  18. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As I recall, no one knew the EW had happened. They just looked like the 20th century conflicts we actually saw. It was what was happening in the background that was the 'real' EW.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^No one knew they were happening at the time, but of course history knows they happened, and the question was whether or not Gary was given future knowledge by the Aegis.

    Although it's unclear whether Gary was given any knowledge of the future at all. His line, "Humans with a Vulcan -- you're from the future!" implies that he knows something about the Federation era, but it could just be a logical deduction: humans haven't met Vulcans yet, so if humans and a Vulcan are on the same ship wearing the same uniform -- not to mention using transporters -- it follows that they must be from the future.