Starship Size Argument™ thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by WarpFactorZ, May 1, 2013.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    According to the VFX guys, Yorktown is 16km across. According to a quick Google, the STIII spacedock is 3.8km horizontally and 5.5km vertically.
     
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  2. Beyond Darkness

    Beyond Darkness Ensign Red Shirt

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    Well there is a strong cooperation between the STO developers and the Star Trek officials and many events that take place in the STO world are later considered to be canon (remember the contest for designing the Odessey class starship?). So, if indeed ends up being canon i guess it can be explained from studying Prime Spock's databanks (for the Federation), reverse engineering the Narada (for the Klingon Empire), some kind of communication between Nero and the Impirial Senate or the Tal'Shiar releasing information about late 24th century technology in order to "secure the future of Romulus" in case Nero failed to succeed in his plan "destroying every Federation world for a Romulus free of the Federation" (for the Romulan Star Empire) and finally from aquiring and revesre engineering Narada debris (for the rest of the Empires).

    Yep, me too. I considered them as a neccessary visual change to make the Star Trek world look futuristic during the 2010s. Simply, designs that looked futuristic during the 60s are now archaic.
     
  3. Beyond Darkness

    Beyond Darkness Ensign Red Shirt

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    Trully gargantuan.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Something serious must have happened in the past to prompt such a huge leap in technology, the Borgs attempt at assimilating the earth in First Contact springs to mind.

    Or perhaps in this time line the Federation found itself at War more often, as we know War always speeds up technological development.

    On saying that I don't really mind if it's not explained, thats the great thing about reboots, what came before doesn't matter.

    Biggest issue is the limitations on fx in the 1960's thru to the 1990's when Next Generation came out, the difference between the quality and complexity of fx and then cgi is like night and day.

    It always made me wonder about the big Romulan Warbirds and why they were so much bigger than their Starfleet counterparts, I just assumed it was that they were powered by a singularity which provided greatly increased power over matter/antimatter and thus allowed them to generate bigger warp fields.

    Thing is if the Federation/Starfleet got their hands on a more advanced matter/antimatter power source at some point in the past the resulting increase in available power would open many technologocal doors not just being able to have larger, faster ships and better shielding.

    The advances would also explain how the antimatter warheads in the torpedoes became more powerful.
     
  5. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Say what what now?
     
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  6. SpaceLama

    SpaceLama Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah STO is bloody well not canon....
     
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  7. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To be fair, he said "many events that take place in the STO world are later considered to be canon" but I'm completely baffled by even that. There hasn't yet been anything canonical set after STO, so how would events from it have made it into canon, and how would we know if they had? Monkey confused...
     
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  8. Gonzo

    Gonzo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    STO is about as non canon as it is possible to get. :wtf:
     
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  9. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There seems to be a lot of empty space inside though, and I was talking about mass rather than diameter. Yorktown was amazing, but didn't strike me as something the builders of Spacedock would have found impossible to construct.
     
  10. SpaceLama

    SpaceLama Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah I was thinking that too - although quite a bit of spacedock was also hollow.
     
  11. jamestyler

    jamestyler Commodore Commodore

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    Yorktown was a wonderful design. It made me think of all the great concept art thats kicking about for city redevelopment or new buildings. It's what an architect would design - something magnificent and wonderful, not just a basic structure.

    It also kind of reminds me or Ringworld (of a few of them) merged in with Mass Effect's Citadel. Excellent visuals. And in terms of what could be designed, logical compared to current world artwork.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Starship envy!

    Think I need to go buy a sports car now. :shifty:
     
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  13. Gonzo

    Gonzo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Alas it seems the nacelles are not as ample as they used to be. :wah:
     
  14. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Captain Captain

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    EAS updated their ship size page with observations from Beyond

    Not really spoilers, the observation can be made from the trailers. But its a wall of text.

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/new_enterprise_comment.htm#size

    "Star Trek Beyond" shows us a close-up of the saucer edge. We can see two rows of windows, and two decks with the typical corridors with the round cross-section behind those windows. This is the same basic arrangement as in the shot with the deck that is ripped open in "Star Trek Into Darkness" (see below). There are two differences, however. The windows in "Beyond" are taller. This might corroborate the notion that there are only two deck in the saucer (as it would be the case on a comparably small ship). On the other hand, the shot in "Beyond" shows us human figures in the corridor, which allow a perhaps better size estimation of the saucer edge. It is close to 18m tall and points to a ship of over 700m length. The windows are all 2m high on the refit.


    STO isn't canon, yes, but the size they were given for the Kelvin Connie was from CBS/Paramount, they didn't make up.

    Edit: Oh the original post was about Tech, not size. Oops. Point still stands though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
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  15. Gonzo

    Gonzo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Everytime I read that page on that website I can't help but laugh, he's been told by the designers themselves and he still cant accept it, anyone who needs what looks like many thousands of words to argue his point doesn't have much of a point to begin with.

    So he seems to acknowledge the 700m size of the ship in Beyond, thing is he still can't let go of the size of the ship preceding it which was also 700m long.

    So he thinks that the 1701 was 300m and the 1701A is 700m, that's not a bad increase for revision of a design don't you think. :guffaw:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
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  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Captain Captain

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    @Gonzo Hes not talking about
    The -A

    And you should spoiler tag that, this thread doesn't have a spoiler warning.
     
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  17. Gonzo

    Gonzo Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    My bad. :whistle:
     
  18. Beyond Darkness

    Beyond Darkness Ensign Red Shirt

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    1)My God... the STO hate is real!!! I did NOT say that STO is canon. I said that for some events there was definitely some kind of cooperation and as such those events were considered canon (at the time).. For example the STO timeline (before Atari parted ways with Cryptic) was posted at the Star Trek site (unless my memory fails me... it has been so long!!!) accepting the Romulan Star Empire falling into chaos after the destruction of Romulus, the Klingon Empire reverting back to its old ways antagonising again The Federation, Data being resurrected in B-4's body through the memories he uploaded in Nemesis and becoming the captain of Enterprise-E etc/the contest that resulted in the Odyssey class design which was accepted as the new Enterprise/the Vesta class starship which was done in cooperation with the designer who had originally conceived it etc... Of course as time goes by and STO's popularity plummets so does the acceptence of those events as canon from the studio.

    2)I have total respect towards ExAstrisScientia's mastermind for the jod he has done with the site, BUT the Kelvinverse Enterprise size has become an obsession for him!!! He basically says we must ignore the bridge screen/window, the thickness of the saucer at its edge, the height of the saucer windows, the height of Enterprise's crew members as they pass by those window, the artium, the artium domes, the shuttle bay, the primary engineering (that houses the warp core), the secondary engineering (with the matter/anti-matter containers), the brewery (where the comms are) and of course what the guys that designed her in the first place say(together with all the prommotion images they have released) just because in his mind a 700m+ Enterprise doesn't make sense!!!!!!
     
  19. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is rather odd that all the considered opinion and detailed screencap analyses goes out the window when it comes to the new Enterprise article, in which black is "proven" to in fact be white. I don't really get it. By all means, moan about the issues with the scaling up of the model, but don't just ignore the overwhelming evidence on screen that it's a huge ship.

    IIRC he was originally like this with the NX-01, but gradually came to accept it. I think there are hints that his position after Beyond is softening a little with the new Enterprise.
     
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  20. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I will give Bernd his due for correcting the shuttlebay changing scale bit. That's very much appreciated.

    Surprised his article doesn't mention the Popular Mechanics cutaway. And I wonder what he'd make of Star Trek Online (admittedly non-canon) saying the Kelvin Timeline's 2260's are technologically equivalent to the early 25th century of the Prime universe? Click!
     
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