Starship Size Argument™ thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by WarpFactorZ, May 1, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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  2. Killerprise

    Killerprise Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    So in your opinion every room is huge and exactly the same size, gotcha. :lol: I love the badly photoshopped image too.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    You mean the "badly photoshopped image" that proves everything you've been claiming to be wrong? Look back at your own attempt to fit the bridge set into the dome and see how much wider the window is compared to the pics from the movie that we (including you yourself) have been posting.

    Now, care to tell me how the engineering section seen here...
    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq9uXOWOqaQ[/YT]
    ...fit's into the >30 meter wide secondary hull of a 366m Enterprise? Because I keep asking, and you've apparently got nothing at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  4. Killerprise

    Killerprise Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    That's a different Enterprise from a different timeline. How is it relevant to the one in the new movies? Everything from the viewscreen to the shuttles to engineering etc. is obviously now much bigger than the versions in The Original Series, and the outside is too.
     
  6. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    The primary shuttle design we see used is 12 meters long, the shuttle bay carries two rows of them either side, two stacked, mirrored across the bay.

    Each berth is therefore about 12.5-13 meters long shortest, with a gap across the bay of nearly twice that. The shuttlebay width at its widest (not even the widest part of the secondary hull) is around 75 meters.

    Engineering looks to be much wider than that, the width where the main brewery machinary is located at the heart of the seconday hull closer to over 100 meters across.

    Two shuttles parked nose to nose would be 24 meters themselves, making it 3 meters either side of them just at the widest point of the old Enterprises hull. Look at screencaps of the bay from TOS-R, park them nose to nose and there's actually not much room either side of them either in the old ship.
     
  7. Killerprise

    Killerprise Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I just showed you images someone did that all but since you want to be an asshole about it I won't show you what I have that proves that the ship is 366 meters and no it's not from bernd's site either.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Since the creators of the material say its 725 meters, I'm going to go with what they say.
     
  9. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    It would be a nice start if you provided anything. Two movies of visual evidence, information directly from the designers of the ship and most all deduction based on analysing the ship from the interior sets points to the 725m size, whereas you have given us...nothing.

    Sorry but that doesn't help what point you're trying to make, and your overly defensive, rude, condescending and insulting language makes us care very much less about it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  10. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Warning for flaming. Comments to PM.
     
  11. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    With a known tendency to exaggerate to make a point. Scotty is a brilliant engineer, but he's always been a little bit of a drama queen.

    No they're not. Apart from the fact that they have a different design from the TMP refit (the hatches fit inside of a larger docking mechanism similar to real-world docking ports) they're also noticeably larger on the new vessel.

    It's from Bernd Schnieder's website, which ceased to be pertinent at least five years ago.

    Really? Because I'm beginning to think you came here to troll.
     
  12. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not that it really matters in a curved/chaotic environment, but if Chekov is reasonably athletic he can probably do a 40-yard dash in, what, 6 seconds? Call it ten seconds with all the people he has to avoid and all the turns.

    The saucer section is just shy of 300 meters long. If the transporter room is near the plaza -- and it appears to be, IMO -- then he'd have to run 40 to 60 meters and probably slide down a ladder or two to get there in time. Call it 20 to 30 seconds and a quick slide down a ladder to get where he's going.

    I'm not sure how high up Kirk and Sulu were when they started falling, but since we don't know much about Vulcan's atmosphere or its gravity it's just about impossible to calculate how far they would have fallen in those 20 to 30 seconds or how fast they would have been going. The most we can say is 20 to 30 seconds isn't really that long, especially since he wound up beaming them onto the ship JUST before they hit the ground.

    FWIW, the videogame lets you get a pretty good look at the shuttlebay too. Assuming that depiction is accurate (it very much tries to be) that would suggest a total of 16 landing pads: eight on each side, four on each level. Apart from the passthrough in the middle between the shuttle bays, there is a considerable amount of room behind the shuttles for equipment and storage before you get to the bulkhead, and behind that -- at least it appears -- is another corridor running parallel to the bay.

    That would imply an internal shuttle bay at least 100 meters wide.
     
  13. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Unfortunately the visual information presented in the films isn't always internally consistent; there seems to be an issue with scaling. Take the scene in STXI where Kirk rolls up to the Enterprise construction site on his bike. You can see people working on the outside of the ship, and either the ship is too small or the people are way too big. ( Giant cyborgs, perhaps? ) Or the emergence from warp at Vulcan. The first time we see what's left of the Mayflower's dish, it's way bigger than the next time we see it a few seconds later.

    But in situations like these we should probably go with whatever is supported by the majority of the evidence. It's like the question of when the film Renaissance takes place. It's supposedly set in 2054 but only one scene indicates that. All the rest of the evidence in the film points to 2042.
     
  14. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    While you might be beginning to think that, you're not supposed to say it in-thread. If you feel you must mention it to someone, please use the 'Notify Moderator' button or PM the appropriate member of staff.
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    While I'm sure the depiction of the shuttlebay is accurate, I'm not so sure about it's size. Third-person action games usually increase the size of environments to give players maneuvering room. See the characters on the bridge, in the corridors or in the turbolift in the game, they look noticably smaller than the actors did on the sets.

    That said, I suspect the shuttlebay and brewery are a bit too big for even a 725m Enterprise. What'd I'd give for that LIDAR'd CG model of engineering used when the gravity gave out!
    The Enterprise was scaled down to fit over the power plant/shipyard location used, but the model was detailed for the 725m+ size. The workmen wouldn't fit in the exposed decks.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Oh come on, it's not like you were being entirely polite either.
     
  17. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    If you actually had anything, you would have presented it already. Your argument boils down to you not wanting the Enterprise to be substantially larger than its previous incarnations, which is irrelevant to reality.
     
  18. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    My primary takeaway thus far is that the nuEnterprise bridge is an oval. I hadn't realized.

    It's my conclusion that:

    1. Those who designed the ship had one size in mind, probably close to the original
    2. Those who were in charge simply thought of it as "big."
    3. At some point those in charge realized it wasn't as big as they thought, and wanted it upscaled.
    4. Thus, the ship's official length is bigger.
    Does it make sense? Eh. Can I live with it? Yeah.

    Can I rationalize that in the Prime 2.0 timeline that a scared-as-crap dominated-by-Section 31 Starfleet poured entirely too much resources into building the Enterprise and ended up with a ship far bigger and more advanced than it was in the Prime universe? Yep.

    There are some glaring technological inconsistencies that burn my biscuits, but official is official.
     
  19. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Official is official, yes. Official sources may be wrong, however. A textbook example is the Star Wars site that stated that the Super Star Destroyer was 8km long, when this was clearly wrong. They revised it twice, with 19km being the final, and much more logical, value.

    In this case, however, the official word on the size of the ship, and every piece of evidence we have, point to the same size: 700m+.
     
  20. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quite so. Many of us may not like it, but until they change their minds and Scotty looks to the camera and tells us different, the ship does appear to be in the 700 meter range.