Starship Size Argument™ thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by WarpFactorZ, May 1, 2013.

  1. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    :)
     
  2. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Excelsior's "new" warp drive would be so called because unlike the old engines it would be theoretically capable of entering transwarp, in much the same way that a jet aircraft -- unlike a propeller driven aircraft -- would be capable of breaking the sound barrier.

    By the same token, it's possible for prop-driven aircraft to reach supersonic speeds if they dive from a high enough altitude under ideal conditions. It seems to also be the case that a starship with a conventional warp drive could enter transwarp in the presence of, say, a Xindi subspace vortex or by creating a quantum slipstream in front of them (or using the Borg transwarp conduits which operate the same as both technologies). True transwarp, however, implies the ability to enter these deep coherent "tunnels" in subspace by brute force alone, without relying (too much) on technobabble trickery or prearranged conduit networks.

    That would nicely explain why the Xindi "subspace vortex" thing was never used again in the 23rd or 24th centuries; the Xindi are instinct in the prime timeline and nobody's ever heard of them OR their vortex trick. Starfleet in the Abramsverse has Jonathan Archer's logs to work with, so they probably figured out a way to generate those vortexes artificially using a severely overclocked warp drive.
     
  3. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes we do. The same overly large window appears on the refit as it did in that one brief scene where the bridge window appeared oddly enlarged to zoom in on kirk. My distinct impression was that this was a second version of the CG Enterprise model with the window shape and proportions altered and that ILM "cheated" and used the new model (shown only from the front) earlier in the movie because the same shot didn't look right using the older one.

    Ironically, it's kind of like what happened with TNG between the 4 foot and the 2/6 foot models. The 4 footer, built much later into Trek's run, looks VERY different from the 2-footer OR the 6-footer, has different textures, different proportions, different window sizes, etc.

    This.

    And IMO it worked pretty well. It's not a mistake to favor style over continuity when the style is AWESOME.:bolian:

    Actually it's the exact opposite of that. In addition to not being the focus of the Director's intention, internal consistency isn't even the VFX artist or Editor's intention. It's only an error if they DIDN'T INTEND to do it that way (the famous error that pops up in various movies where a car chase begins in the afternoon but ends at night because it literally took all day to finish shooting it).

    If, OTOH, you intentionally under-expose the film to make the final part of the car chase darker because it's a very dark moment for both characters (or because they've driven into a part of the city that's supposed to be smog-covered and polluted and sort of dystopian) that's a style choice, even if it's inconsistent with other parts of the movie where the street scene wasn't nearly that dark in daylight.
     
  4. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    A distinct possibility. I just don't know why they'd cheat, since they presumably didn't delete the files of the "old" model. :p

    Yeah, a very obvious difference which annoyed me back then. I used to prefer the 4-footer but now I find the 6-footer sleeker and more pleasing to the eye.
     
  5. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Probably because the window proportions of the old model didn't work for that shot so they filmed it with the new one instead, realizing that nobody would notice the switch.
     
  6. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Except the people who want the Enterprise to be 300m long. ;)
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    I wish the Enterprise was even bigger than what people are saying. It should be at least 1,500m long. Longer!
     
  8. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Bigger than a planet ?
     
  9. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    It's still built on the ground too, just to piss people off.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw:
     
  11. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    Did you just stick Kentuck with the ass end of it?
     
  12. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    Actually, you can blame (or thank) John Eaves IIRC for that one. He made it when the size argument came up during the first film.
     
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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  14. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    My issue with the ship scales for JJ's reboot is that the ships seem too big. A super-ship for no reason just seems dumb.

    It brings to mind the idea of an idiot director screaming the word "bigger" at the effects guys because he's a member of the key demographic of beer commercials.

    I will admit that the 366M version of the ship seems too small, but the VFX guys jacked the ship up as if they were adding bigger boobs to their computer woman in Weird Science. Also, they seemed to do it in the simplest way possible; it's as if they just went into the options menu and clicked the ship size box from 100% to 200%. They didn't bother to shrink any of the outer ports or windows on the ship's hull to fit the more massive size.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Starfleet was planning to go to war larger ships would be a necessity to carry troops and supplies. A ship like the Vengeance would be very useful under that type of scenario. It seems that the Abramsverse doesn't work under the assumption that two ships are going to sit and slug it out and that you can hold a planet with twenty people. Wars are likely to be much more like the real thing.

    These ships are grains of sand on a beach compared to the size of a star system. I don't think the larger sizes really constitutes an issue except for those who are locked in on how big ships should be based on the prior series/movies.
     
  16. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    I was actually okay with the gigantic size of the Vengeance. It was supposed to be a big, scary warship with room "to carry troops and supplies."

    I think the thing that bothered me more about the Enterprise's embiggening was the fact that they did it in such a simplistic manner. Instead of making a 725m model for the ship, they just doubled the size of the 366m model and it looks off. All of the outer windows and ports just got bigger instead of being spaced out more and/or more added.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  17. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    Why would a capital ship be transporting soldiers and equipment into a battle? Wouldn't that function be better handled by a dedicated transport?
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Still has to be able to defend itself.
     
  19. Jon1701

    Jon1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Christ, if that is correct the size of the vengenance is ludicrous.

    It can be piloted by one person? :wtf:

    Whats all the space for?

    No. Sense. Whatsoever.

    It's a good job the new spacedocks have the ships on the outside, you'd never fucking fit one inside a prime universe one.
     
  20. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    If I recall what Khan said, it was modified for a minimal crew, not originally designed that way.