Starship Size Argument™ thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by WarpFactorZ, May 1, 2013.

  1. webb3201

    webb3201 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I just rewatched TUC and got a giggle from that scene. I explained it away as perhaps he was sleeping in a smaller set of quarters/ready room near the bridge for quick access. I remembered touring the USS Lexington and that the captain had a small room off the bridge in addition to his larger quarters.
     
  2. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    Who is John Galt?
    Huh...so that space is nothing more than a big-ass skylight. Interesting. It definitely looks like they made the main bridge deck taller and lessened the height of the upper dome housing, without increasing the overall height of the structure. In the original version, it looks roughly 1/3 bridge deck, 2/3 dome. In the new one, it's almost half-and-half and certainly more detailed.
     
  3. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Europa
    It looks like the 09 version in other shots:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Well, you'd get a magnified compressed view at the closest look ... IF an actual zoom effect was used as opposed to just representing the move as a physical motion through space ... if you were shooting it with the same size lens throughout the shot, there wouldn't be distortion arising unless you were in way WAY close, and the distortion would roll to one side.

    If you look at live-action of Sarek walking with FedPrez in TVH, you can see the lines of the room distort significantly as they go screen right, due to the wide angle lens.
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    I just took it that Meyers depicted Starfleet as a more militaristic organisation, and military ships tend to be cramped.
     
  6. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    It sure looks like a different size, but then again, the shot where it does is also being filmed with a wide-angle lens, which distorts the hell out of the image.
     
  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    How do you get to find shots from ID like this ??
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    And where did _they_ get that ? (that's the essence of my question, really)
     
  10. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Location:
    Star's End
    Screenshots from trailers, tv spots, various featurettes, promo images etc etc
     
  11. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    I wasn't aware there was so much stuff i the trailers and promos. Especially of the refit.

    Speaking of refit, it seems to me like there's another thing that's different. Before that, the opening 'fins' at the end of the saucers opended into three blocks, but now it seems that they open into four:

    http://www.ncc1701shipyard.com/images/highres/nacelles6.jpg
     
  12. bryce

    bryce Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Location:
    bryce

    Well, I've argued before that the changes that Nero made would *have* to go both ways - past and future...otherwise the Alternate Universe's past would be full of travelers from a future that wasn't it's own future - and nuKirk could go back in time to say the events of "Assignment: Earth", and hitch a ride with Prime Kirk & Spock back to the Prime universe! (Then again, there's the concept in some sci-fi of visitors from *probably* futures, because the future is in flux - but I don't think that applies here.)

    Anyway, so it's possible that changes in the technology in nuTrek were the result of *other* trips to the past, from some time in the Alternate Universe's future (or maybe even it's present) - trips that didn't take place in the Prime Timeline, but do...now...in the Alternate Timeline. (This is also the very same mechanism that would allow for the changes that Nero made to propagate *both* ways in time.)
     
  13. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    How does that work ?

    I don't see that as a problem, since by that time they went back to the future... that was just erased. Their loss. ;)

    Not the way I envision it:

    http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/02/47/01/timeli11.jpg
     
  14. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Absolutely. I saw the movie again today and it's only in that shot that the bridge seems taller. In the scene where they depart from spacedock, you have a clear shot of the bridge module and it's no different than from the first movie.
     
  15. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Location:
    Your Mom
    Actually, it looks to me like they intentionally distorted that particular chunk of the model to accommodate a larger bridge window for that specific shot. Probably this is because the flip-side zoom in cinematography looked weird otherwise and they had to fudge things a bit to make it look right. The model itself actually looks very strange leading right up to that zoom in and never looks like that again in any other shot (and the bridge window is also very much out of proportion with the side windows port and starboard).

    It's not hard to guess what the problem was: they wanted the camera to eventually zoom in to Kirk standing in the bridge window showing his face as we got closer. With the original proportions of the window, Kirk would be a very tiny ant in that window until right before the camera flew into it; the buildup of "I see a person... I see a person in a gold shirt... it's Kirk" is kind of diluted in that case. The purpose of that shot wasn't so much to Establish the size of the Enterprise so much as establishing Kirk's location on the Enterprise and the Enterprise's location in the scheme of things; accordingly, they fudged the model a bit to make certain things stand out better than others.

    It's kind of annoying, but not exactly meaningful. It's still not quite as bad as the fact that you can't see the saucer section from Jean Luc Picard's ready room window.:vulcan:
     
  16. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Aha!! Take a look at this image from STiD:

    http://www.ncc1701shipyard.com/images/highres/shuttlebay3.jpg

    The shuttle bay is NOT symmetric. Note the "central" lane does not go down the middle, and the supporting bar on the port side is longer than the one on the starboard. Longer shuttles go on the port side, shorter ones on the starboard. This suggests they were re-thinking the absurd scene from ST09....
     
  17. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Or, it suggests that the image perspective is playing tricks on you. Notice that the floor of the shuttlebay is lower than the edge of the engineering section, unlike the TMP model.
     
  18. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Europa
    Exactly.

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0984.jpg
     
  19. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    That looks like a "W" shaped bridge structure up top.

    That might be interesting as a "small" attack craft on its own.

    Now for after market folks to do a new impulse deck for the Revell offering.

    growing up, Trek ships were the biggest things on Screen. Now you had the Valley Forge from Silent Running, and Cygnus, but when I first saw the Star destroyer I knew something had changed.

    Now Trek ships are finally keeping up with everyone else, and folks are mad. Rather like how folks bashed SLS when I thought bringing Saturn class rockets back would be accepted.

    Go Figure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2013
  20. Gonzo

    Gonzo Guest

    Yeah a few individuals are having a real problem with the new reality... personally I am loving the new ship sizes, I think it is more realistic and an understandable response to the Narada incursion and destruction of Vulcan.

    I would not have minded if the NuEnterprise had been destroyed and the Vengeance had become its replacement, but perhaps that would be a bit too mirror universe in feel.

    I was hoping for an extensive refit at the end of Into Darkness with some Vengeance class upgrades, perhaps it will happen at the end of the 3rd film.

    Now we are left wondering who will be the next enemy now that the first 5 year mission is underway (a few years earlier than in original series).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2013