Starfleeters?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by DavidGutierrez, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    No, it doesn't. It's simply a case that the term "officer" isn't limited to just one definition. It's just a term used to describe either people or an occupation. And that's really all there is to it.

    Now, one could argue the specifics of commissioned and noncommissioned officers, but that still falls under the category of the term having more than one actual definition.
    But is obviously not exactly like the U.S. Navy, and does deviate from it here and there. If anything, one can accurately say it's loosely modeled after the USN and cherry picks what aspects it wants to observe.
    But from an "in-universe" perspective, there is a case to be made that Starfleet just isn't uptight about using the term "officer" in a generic sense for its personnel since it still allows specifics when necessary.
     
  2. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Is there any example of "Starfleet officer" being used for Starfleet personnel collectively that can't be interpreted as referring only to commissioned officers? Or for enlisted personnel other than O'Brien?
     
  3. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    What do you think is more likely? My comparison to the Navy or your comparison to a police force?

    From "Family"

    SERGEY: Don't call me sir. I used to work for a living.
    HELENA: He's joking. The proudest day of his life was when Worf earned his commission.
    SERGEY: Can you imagine an old enlisted man like me raising a boy to be an officer?


    That is an example of Sergey referencing a commissioned officer while at the same time taking comical umbrage at being addressed as an officer. So when I hear the term "Starfleet Officer" it really doesn't seem to be this catch all term. We rarely see any enlisted personnel in Star Trek except for Chief O'Brien. The references to him being called an officer are usually when he is part of a group or filling a role that would designate him as an officer.

    So yeah, the term "officer" has a lot of meanings by definition but when used in Star Trek it seems pretty obvious to me that they aren't referring to a cop or a fortune 500 CEO.
     
  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Both. I think Starfleet that Starfleet borrows things from multiple earlier organizations, but is ultimately its own thing and really isn't a stickler with how the term "officer" is used in casual conversation.
     
  5. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    So they have a rank structure identical to the U.S. Navy but they decided to throw in some police terminology for the hell of it? I'm sorry but I see LT Worf not Officer Worf and I see Chief O'Brien not Detective O'Brien. :shrug:

    Call them what you want though. It really isn't that big of a deal. I was an Officer in the Army at one point, I was also called a Soldier. I can be both but Private "Jones" cannot be. I feel the same applies here. It just sounds confusing if you ask me and doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it.
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Um, no. The police analogy extends only to "officer" being a catch-all term for its personnel.

    What Starfleet did was loosely model itself after Earth's oceangoing navies and some other organizations, but not everything is the same. Being an organization from another time and place, you'd actually expect some differences here and there, really (even if it's only in the way they commonly address their personnel).
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Plenty. At various times a ship's compliment is mentioned it's usually followed by the word officers. EG the Enterprise D has 1000 officers, Defiant has 40 officers, Voyager 150 officers and so on.
     
  8. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    I'm sorry but you acknowledge that Starfleet is based loosely on the Navy and "some other organizations" but you are adamant that they would change the way they address personnel because?

    I figure the term outsiders use to indentify personnel in Starfleet is...Starfleet. For example, crew walks into a bar..."here comes Starfleet." Calling everyone an "officer" even when they are not can be seen as disrespectful to those that take pride in being a non-com or a lowly crewman. Maybe my own history in the military is steering me towards this line of thinking but I have seen some NCO's that are pretty quick to correct you if you label them as an officer in any way.
     
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Hear! Hear!

    Although I don't think that the structure of a police force really gets to a solid explanation about how individuals off all ranks in Starfleet can be named, it does at least illustrate that there exists a myriad of structures to emulate, depending on the organization's needs. (Enlisted) Crewmen work very closely with commissioned officer in Trek, and probably have a high degree of personal responsibility. The common demonym ought to reflect that.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing "adamant" about it. Starfleet does seem to be similar to several earlier organizations, but not actually the same as them. So some things are different. It's not that difficult of a concept.
     
  11. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    It shouldn't be a difficult concept.

    Person A: This guy on the left is an officer. The guy on the right is not. What do we call them?

    Person B: Officers!

    How does that make sense? I'm sorry but that would only convolute things.

    How about this.

    Person A: Hey did you hear about the Officers dinner tonight?

    Person B: No, who is invited?

    Person A: The officers are invited.

    Person B: Great, I'll see you there.

    Person A: No, you aren't invited. It is only for officers.

    :wtf:
     
  12. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    It doesn't seem to have confused people for the past 47 years.

    It's just a case of one organization having a different general term for its personnel than another. As I said a few times in an earlier post, it doesn't preclude the discussion of specific ranks when called for.
     
  13. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I find the term "Starfleet Officers" as a catch all for everyone to be unecessarilly redundant, misleading and possibly disrespectful to the enlisted pesonnel.
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    It's definitely a case of having different opinions. I think Starfleet closely observes some things but plays fast and loose with other things.
     
  15. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely. Good discussion though.
     
  16. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it was. Peace.
     
  17. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Not quite...the 1000 people on the Ent-D included the families...I doubt that they were ever referred to as "officers".
     
  18. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You do realize that Gene Roddenberry was both a naval veteran and a police officer? It is no coincidence the show's terminology reflected aspects of both organizations.

    No matter the rank, ALL are "police officers". Our chief of police was a sworn police officer, as were all of us in the department.

    Naval officers are NOT the same as enlisted personnel. No self-respecting naval person would allow you to confuse them with the other ones. The only difference is that enlisted sailors will call you out more vehemently than officers. :devil:
     
  19. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Gene was in the US Army Air Corps/Forces.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My uncle was a career CPO in the navy... most calm, collected and disciplined man I ever met in my life. The only time I ever saw him get angry was when I was 9 and asked him if he wanted to be an officer so he could get paid more. :p

    I didn't get it at the time for some reason and was just proud that I had memorize military ranks in a book I had read. ;)