Starfleet non-coms

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Melakon, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    We know that most, if not all, officers attended Starfleet Academy. But what of the lower ranks? Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route. Are there others?

    There doesn't seem to be a mandatory conscription or draft system in effect.

    Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

    I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably that. They also might recruit at high schools like the services in the modern day US do. ( or did when I was a kid)
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I suppose some sort of Civilian Defense Organization also exists, which could have some sort of transfer program. And a similar arrangement with whatever authority governs industrial/commercial shipping fleets.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...This basically solely because Chief O'Brien was once referred to as having taken a course at the Academy, in "Trials and Tribble-ations", despite being established as a non-com in incidental dialogue and explicit plotlines (and some costuming ambiguities notwithstanding).

    But the reference was not made by the man himself - it was made in jest by the flippant Julian Bashir. It reads like this:

    The actual implication is that the Chief did not take elementary temporal mechanics at the Academy. Whether he even went to the Academy (for this single course, or for anything else) is highly doubtful as well.

    On the other hand, this is how O'Brien describes his joining Starfleet in "Shadowplay":

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Spike730

    Spike730 Captain Captain

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  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

    And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The only non-coms we really have any background on are Chief O'Brien and Simon Tarses. Chief O'Brien, as mentioned above joined Starfleet to avoid going to a music academy. Simon Tarses wanted to go into space, but didn't want to spend four years in a classroom first, so he went the enlisted route.

    Really, I think you'll find similar reasons for everyone who serves in Starfleet in the enlisted ranks. For whatever reasons they aren't interested in an extra four years of education (college/university isn't for everyone) and starship command isn't one of their career goals anyway. Obviously, not very many people have this mindset given how few non-coms we've seen compared to how many officers there are.
     
  8. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well we've seen lots of people referred to as "crewman" over the years. Yeomen also appear to have been enlisted personnel as well (they wore no rank designation).

    What we saw of the entry process in SFA on TNG certainly reinforces the idea that it was REALLY difficult to get in (though I seriously don't see either Tom Paris nor Be'lanna and Nog passing an entrance process THAT difficult). What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation. It would also make sense for there to be recruitment centers as well. for NCOs

    One I could also see Starfleet doing outreach to technical/specialist schools in each of the sciences. Starfleet has WAY too many technical/scientific specialists for them all to have attended SFA. Its possible that once Starfleet started allowing civilians to serve on starships that the number of NCOs dropped. That would explain why you saw fewer NCOs on TNG. When the Borg incursions and Dominion War forced Starfleet to put an end to that policy, you likely saw more NCOs. If I recall correctly most of O'Brien's engineering team on the Defiant were NCOs.
     
  9. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    why is this a complicated issue? People probably enlist in Starfleet for the same reason they do in the Navy-career opportunities, travel opportunities, a desire to serve, a chance at adventure, etc.

    I'd imagine they have recruiting facilities just like they do now.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    You'd think so, but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco. Seriously, there was a thread a while back where we went through the characters we know the training background of, and an overwhemingly high percentage are confirmed as graduates of the Academy.

    I think what Drago-Kazov is referring to is the DS9 episode The Assignment in which Rom is transferred to the station's engineering swing shift. The Starfleet officers among this shift don't share his enthusiam for the job.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Admittedly there would be a few griping about the real nasty daily jobs. Not everyone would be proud of becoming Permanent Latrine Orderly like Will Stockdale in No Time For Sergeants.
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqg4rJPUxGs[/yt]
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Same here.

    I always imagined there were a number of basic training centers--or boot camps--located throughout the Federation with perhaps some advanced training at the Academy or other facilities.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That isn't the impression I got from TOS, only a few mentioned attending the academy. Kirk, Mitchell, and Merik (sp?). The other officers might have gotten their commissions through something like OTS, ROTC, etc.. There are a few pieces of dialog suggesting that Spock didn't attend the academy, same with McCoy.

    And one episode suggests that Uhura might have been a mustang, she was enlisted prior to being an officer.


    :)
     
  16. timmy84

    timmy84 Commodore Commodore

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    Well we know that Starfleet has noncoms. They are the guys with no rank insignia on their collars. I could be mistaken, but I think its been said that O'Brian could become an officer if he wanted too, so a program to allow enlisted to become officers exist. So if you just want to get out there now you can become an officer later.

    I don't subscribe to the belief of ROTC programs for Starfleet officers. I don't know why really, I just don't feel it is that way. However I'm willing to believe that Starfleet has several training facilities across the Federation for enlisted personnel (although even this I doubt).

    And as for reasons why someone would enlist, on the episode of Voyager where Janeway decides to work with the three worst crewmembers, one of them only enlisted in Starfleet because the school he wanted to go to required time served in deep space. So many reasons exist.

    :borg:
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, in The Ultimate Computer when Commodore Wesley calls Kirk Captain Dunsel, everyone on the bridge gets it except McCoy. He then gets the explanation from Spock who explains it as an Academy term, making it clear that Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov attended the Academy.

    Of course, Trek XI shows everyone, even McCoy at the Academy.

    Past Tense Part 1, O'Brien makes an off-hand remark about "that's why I stay an enlisted man."
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    In TOS, I always assumed McCoy was about 10 years older than Kirk (though Urban-Pine suggests less), and got his rank based on his existing medical degrees and experience. Don't current service organizations grant automatic officer ranks to enlisting specialists like medical personnel?
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Yep. IIRC, a military doctor is automatically commissioned at the O-3 level. My dad, for example, served in the Army Medical Corps. He was commissioned as a Captain right away after joining. Didn't have to go to West Point or boot camp or anything like that.
     
  20. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    That is the one.
     

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