Starfleet Marine Corps

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Danlav05, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Danlav05

    Danlav05 Captain Captain

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    Are these 'canon'?

    There are a few articles out there on the web such as Memory Gamma, however apart from the MACOs they've never featured.

    Hve they been in books/comics? Its suggested Colonel West form The Undiscovered Country was a member.


    They are a much talked about 'myth', but has even fan films used them? It's an interestingly famous but largly unknown feature of the Trek universe.
     
  2. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Starfleet does have some form of ground troops. We've seen them several times, most notably on DS9.

    What they are actually CALLED, on the other hand, is not clear. Could be anything. It hasn't been nailed down yet.
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Canonically, no there are no "Starfleet Marines." The idea has been toyed with, a Marine detachment was originally considered for TOS, but that never materialized. The earliest details for Enterprise had Malcolm Reed listed as a "Starfleet Marine." However, by the time the show went into production he was a regular Starfleet officer.

    Behind the scenes info for Trek V says the guys in blue shirts that were on the mission to Nimbus III were Marines, but they were never identified as such on screen.

    The only definitive indication we have of ground forces onscreen are the MACOs, and even then we're not completely sure what happened to them after the Federation was formed. They likely were absorbed into Starfleet, given that their uniforms had the command star seen on the TOS uniforms, but beyond that we know nothing.

    The black outfit guys on DS9 are an odditiy. While they do seem to be some sort of ground force, they use navy style ranks like the rest of Starfleet.

    Colonel West, despite his army rank wears a Starfleet uniform with an Admiral's insignia. He should have a Captain's insignia, since a Colonel is the Army/Marine equivelant of a Navy Captain. Although the novels say he is an Admiral who is referred to as Colonel as a nickname.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  4. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Do we know that the dudes from DS9 aren't just regular Starfleet guys assigned to ground warfare?
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I don't think Starfleet would do that. You can't have every officer trained in every line of work. It just doesn't work that way. There must always be specialization. You can't pick starship crew and assign them to ground combat willy-nilly - it'd be like sending a Walmart security guard to fight in Afghanistan.

    The guys in the black uniforms could be Starfleet's equivalent of Navy SEALs - naval personnel, but trained in missions like this. I do like the concept of a Starfleet Marine Corps though. I'd prefer to have dedicated ground combat divisions.
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think Starfleet's security division does have personnel that are Starfleet Marines in everything but name.
     
  7. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Security officers (i.e. redshirts) are starship crew. They're not meant for ground combat.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    As far as I know, Starfleet Marines exist only in FASA's RPG sourcebooks and maybe some fanfiction.

    IIRC, Star Trek Online has the Enterprise's MACOs still active and a separate entity in the early 25th century.

    There are no mention of marines in the Trek novelverse.
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    But they've seen doing such during away missions.

    I think the only real difference between starship security personnel and ground troops is that the latter is generally deployed in much larger numbers on a planetary surface and may have specialized equipment. Otherwise, they're probably interchangeable.
     
  10. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In TFF there was a ground force used on Nimbus III who had dark blue trim to the uniforms, rather than the dark green of Security at the time.

    Personally I avoid using Marines in my fan fic, as security personnel will be trained well enough to handle just about anything the galaxy has to throw at them. But that's just me.
     
  11. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is at least one that does, The Forgotten War.

    Me, I'm sticking with the suggestion that there are Starfleet Marines. I know it's not canon, but the hell with that. It just makes the most sense. Furthermore, I suggest that the TOS incarnation of them, wears the same kind of uniform as the rest of Starfleet, but in black. Don't tell me that wouldn't look cool. :cool:
     
  12. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why are we calling them Marines not Soldiers? As all of the combat situations we see are more representative of Soldiers in the generic sense rather than marines in the specific sense (if that makes sense)?
     
  13. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Well, Starfleet *is* a navy. And thus any ground combat division that is derived from it, is more likely to be Marines.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For safety. If you ever want to start a fist fight with a marine, look him in the eye and call him a "soldier."

    Or Green.

    I wrote a fanfic once that when a younger Kirk was assigned to the long term survey of Neural (Tyree's planet), he was transferred TDY to the infantry, because they do the long term surveys, while the fleet does "scan and dash" investigations. This is why we sometimes would see Kirk wearing that green wrap around shirt, he's "entitled" to wear the color.

    I think that the security personnel we see are basically military police. And while like modern day MP's they can be employed in combat, it isn't their specialty. A security guard might be able to (in an emergency) take the helm, but not their primary training.

    :)
     
  15. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Green? I think I'd prefer black as the Marine division color. Green looks too much like the greenish-gold of command.

    And I don't see Marines wearing tunics as ridiculous looking as Kirk's wraparound. :lol:
     
  16. neozeks

    neozeks Captain Captain

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    Millitary police type duties are definitely part of their job but I'd say they are a bit more than just that. They're like what the Marines were up until the beginning of the 20th century. They maintained shipboard security but were more like ship-based soldiers with additional security missions than just military police and they participated in plenty of land actions and combat.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Marines", "soldiers" or "Army" all carry the connotation that this is an organization somehow separate from "Starfleet proper". There's no evidence of there existing any organizations separate from Starfleet proper, though: things like Starfleet Security and Starfleet Medical all appear to be part of the same organization, with parallel branches in a hierarchy consisting of many more or less identical branches.

    We have seen people we could interpret as being ground fighting specialists. But we have also seen engineering specialists, medical specialists and people specializing in astrophysics. They all carry the same Starfleet-pattern (that is, Navy-pattern) ranks and answer to the same generic Starfleet bosses, even if through a department head who's also something of a specialist (but most of the explicit department heads we see are actually generalists!).

    Moreover, when we do see ground fighters, they, too, have Starfleet-pattern ranks: the people who fought at AR-558 were commanded by a Captain and then a Commander, supposedly in that order, not by a Colonel and a Major. The remaining evidence is neutral, with the rank of Lieutenant assigned to a ground fighter or three, making it impossible to distinguish between Navy and Army patterns. There has never been a Starfleet officer or crewman performing ground fighting duties and carrying an Army-pattern rank.

    None of this means there wouldn't exist a specialist branch in Starfleet dedicated to ground fighting, or boarding action, or aerial fighting or whatnot; perhaps there even exist separate branches for all, with some people dedicating their careers to mastering the art of fighting in an antigrav harness a minimum of fifty meters off the ground, and others serving in a specialist force that fights on the outer hulls of starships. Perhaps the existence of multiple small branches like that is what preempts the use of the term "Marines" in Star Trek dialogue?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I've got that one but haven't read it yet. I'm curious to see how they're featured.
     
  19. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Why should they be Sam Fed's Misguided Children, and not the UPF MC? Personally, I think they should exist, as well as UPF Army, but am less certain about equivalents to the AF and CG existing as stand-alone services. More likely, they'd be part of the naval Starfleet structure.
     
  20. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Well, we know from VOY's "Thirty Days" that there is a such thing as the Federation Naval Patrol.

    I myself like the idea that the Federation has its own Federation Army and other branches alongside the Federation Starfleet, but the canonical evidence seems to imply that Starfleet's unique force-projection abilities have mostly rendered conventional armies and other forces obsolete.

    And it's not implausible that Starfleet might encompass multiple service branches. The Canadian Forces encompasses the Canadian Army, the Royal Canadian Navy, and the Royal Canadian Air Force, all under a single service force.