Starfleet is the U.S. Coast Guard

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by The Green Mushroom, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Star Wolf

    Star Wolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  2. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can think of a way to end this debate really easily.

    Okay lets think of a sci-fi series close to Star Trek, for this I'll go with Space Battleship Yamato since its kind of star treky even has the color coded divisions thing for its starship crew.

    Alright does the crew from Space Battleship Yamato do basically the same job as the typical Starfleet crew? Answer: Pretty much.

    Are they members of the military? Answer: Yes.

    So case closed Starfleet = military.
     
  3. The Green Mushroom

    The Green Mushroom Commander Red Shirt

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    As the original poster and someone who hasn't been around in a while, I just want to clear something up.

    Did I give the implication that the USCG is not the military? Because that could not be further from the truth, even if the coast guards of other countries are civilian organizations.
     
  4. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think most of us agree that Starfleet = military.

    This shouldn't be a point of debate.

    IMO, Starfleet = military + many other disciplines
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The thread title impliees you believe Starfleet is more Coast Guard than it is Navy, even though you have not really provided any ocnivincing reasons for why it is more Coast Guard or less Navy.

    But that's just redundant since the "many other disciplines" are all military jobs or responsibilities anyway.
     
  6. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Um, actually, the USCG is a military that the government pretends isn't a miltary, so that it doesn't violate the posse comitatus act.
     
  7. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    The Revenue Marine/Revenue Cutter Service was operating the same way the USCG does today (maritime law enforcement in peacetime, under the navy in wartime) long before that act.
     
  8. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

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    Way before. The Revenue Cutter Service was formed shortly after the Revolution.

    And actually, it evolved INTO the Coast Guard.

    We celebrated the 200th Birthday of the USCG on August 4th, 1990, while I was in service.

    nightwind1
    USCG Petty Officer 3rd Class, 1988-1993

    Semper Paratus
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, when you put it that way, I guess it is like Starfleet. ;)
     
  10. section9

    section9 Commander Red Shirt

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    Go back to Gene Roddenberry's personal service history and you'll see why he designed "Starfleet" the way he did.

    Roddenberry was a bomber pilot with the 13th Air Force in the South Pacific during the War. The largest presence in everyone's life was the Pacific Fleet. There were thousands of ships in the big Blue Fleet (all were painted Haze Grey, btw), and the comings and goings of the gray supply ships were a constant presence in Roddenberry's life (he won the DFC, btw).

    Starfleet is based on, if nothing else, the Pacific Fleet of World War II, a vast armada that as much as any instrument of war, played the most prominent role in the strangulation and reduction of the Japanese Empire. Roddenberry had a more pacific and scientific role in mind for Starfleet, but in the confident era of pre-Vietnam America that gave birth to Star Trek, Star Fleet was an armada that was fit to fight, and ready to fight.
     
  11. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Probably an influence, but the massive 3rd/5th Fleet concentrations of naval power don't really resemble the Starfleet we've seen. It seems more like a 19th century navy, with stations and squadrons spread all over the place, looking after national interests, backing up diplomacy, policing the colones. Especially the Royal Navy, also massive and militarily dominant, but where the "dramatic action" would be be found more in patrolling a far-flung empire than steaming back and forth in battle line exercises over and over again.

    Justin
     
  12. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Read the Making of Star Trek. Starfleet was based on the Hornblower novels, and the situation (out of contact with home base, etc) was modeled on the 18th century Royal Navy. However, to make it more accessible to audiences, he used the then-current US Navy structure, ranks, etc., rather than using the tradition Nelson matured and died under, so we didn't get to see Kirk's First Lieutenant Spock, or Midshipman Chekov. It also avoided having audiences puzzle out Kirk bellowing "wear ship!"
     
  13. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I've read it. It says that the captain is based on Hornblower, whose career as a captain, of course, was in the 19th century. If we are looking for a real-world parallel, the 1800s RN, with a larger British Empire, a more extensive network of bases, coaling stations etc. and lack of a looming battle fleet threat, seems a better fit the the 18th century RN.

    Justin
     
  14. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well mostly because said looming battle fleet threat was afraid some energy ball people would f@#k them up royally if they started something :klingon:
     
  15. Vonstadt

    Vonstadt Captain Captain

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    As the old saying goes is, 'if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck....its a duck'

    Starfleet is the UFP's Military.

    Quack! ;)
     
  16. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

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    I have a question, who said that Starfleet is not a military organization in the series? Picard? I don't think Sisko did, but I remember that Picard mentioned it several time in TNG, or if not he mentioned it in an old Star Trek Game called Final Unity. He said to the Alien that the Enterprise was not a warship and it's weapon is means only for self defense. Well, I don't know, but I think Picard is a liar, or else, he won't went around the galaxy with the Enterprise D, a ship full of powerful weapons, the best belong to Starlfeet. Why not going around with an Oberth Class if it means only for scientific and exploration mission?

    Or Starlfeet is the sole UFP organization that handle out world matter. Inside, there are scientific and exploration organization like NASA, Diplomatic corp, Military Force, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  17. Star Wolf

    Star Wolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well in pre federation days Captain Archer made a big deal about having to add "the military" in the form of the MACOs to the Enterprise's mission. Going with the Hornblower theme the US established a Naval Academy and a Military Academy
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He sounded like a Navy captain of today grumbling about having a bunch of army commandos on his ship to me.
     
  19. timmy84

    timmy84 Commodore Commodore

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    Oh the old debate. Let me get my thoughts together.

    Let's see.

    Starfleet is a military organisation.

    Wow. That was simple.

    Anyway, someone mentioned the MACOs being on Enterprise as being the military. I think the United Earth Starfleet was never meant to be a combat unit. Hence why Enterprise didn't have a policy of elevated alert status in battle, which came later with the introduction of "Tactical Alert". Instead they were given the means to defend themselves. When the unthinkable happened and Earth entered into an interstellar conflict, the UE Starfleet had no choice but to adopt the mission of Earths defensive space force, and brought along the separate special forces of Earths unified army (although I still believe that the MACO were not a large fighting force. We know that the Earth nations still had militaries, so the MACOs were an elite fighting unit granted to the United Earth government. A small force it always had access too.)

    Starfleet is an adaptable organisation. And it seems like it builds up to a full combat force when needed. Star Trek VI is a prime example of this. Starfleet built up into a large military force to counter the Klingons. This large force was scaled down after the movie, evolving into the more exploratory Starfleet of Picard's era. It of course built up for the war with the Dominion. Even adopting more military style I uniforms.

    Starfleet is what is needed for the Federation. Eliminate the bureaucracy by having one group do it all.
     
  20. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    there was also a USCG presence in the Viet Nam conflict. Also, the USCG has been involved the wars in the middle east the past decade, providing port security at overseas bases, among other functions.
     

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