Starfleet Command Insignia

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by DakotaSmith, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Gentlemen,

    I also agree that good story telling is more important than nitpicky canon, but I don't see how tiny technical "in-universe" details could possibly harm a good story.

    If they did, I'd wonder if it's really a good story, on the other hand a good story should also add to continuity rather than flourish at its expense.

    Bob
     
  2. CrazyMatt

    CrazyMatt Captain Captain

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    So, just to recap: from all that we know from the discussions in this thread, we can conclude:

    1. Gene Roddenberry wanted all starship personnel to wear the delta and all Starfleet Command personnel to wear the flowery star. While the delta was an original design from who knows where, the flowery star was something sold in a craft shop, and is in fact still commercially available today.

    2. During the run-up to the production of "The Doomsday Machine," Bill Theiss, apparently unaware of the dictate regarding starship personnel, decided the character of Matt Decker needed a unique patch, representing that he was in fact from a starship other than the Enterprise. Somehow, this went unnoticed by the powers that be, and in Theiss mind, the concept that each starship had its own unique patch was validated.

    3. That validation led Theiss to design a third starship patch for use in "The Omega Glory," which we see on the uniform worn by Morgan Woodward during his memorable portrayal of Capt Ronald Tracey, as well as Dr. Carter, the Exeter's late Chief Medical Officer (and a full commander... why wasn't McCoy one too?). However, during dailies, Bob Justman, who somehow didn't watch daillies featuring William Windom during the (I'm guessing) 3 or 4 days he was filmed during TDM (based on the varied beard growth seen), notices Tracey's patch and raises the red flag, quickly sending off a "what kind of fool are you" memo to Theiss, reminding him that all starship personnel are supposed to wear the delta regardless of the ship on which they serve. He also realizes that there's no way they can afford to reshoot the scenes already filmed with Woodward in them, so he says not to change the patch. Being very forward thinking, perhaps he even says to himself, "Maybe, just maybe, 40 years from now, overly interested fans of the show--who don't currently show up in our crappy Neilson ratings--will passionately discuss this seeming contradiction on some type of international network... maybe like a super modern Marconi machine that maybe even looks and works like a tricorder. Cool, eh?"

    4. One week later, feeling appropiately chastised by Justman's memo, Theiss decides, "well, I want to use another patch for the character playing Wesley in "The Ultimate Computer," and the only other patch I know of that's approved to use is the flowery star, so I'll just use that." During dailies, Justman recognizes that flowery star as legit (that is, GR approved), makes no fuss regarding it's use, and all is happy again in Trekville. In fact, Justman maybe even says to himself, "That'll just make those future passionate discussions all the more passionate. Damn, why can't we generate that passion now with those friggin' Neilson families???"

    5. Finally, during season three, with no money to even make doubleknit uniform shirts for all the dead crewmembers shown on the Defiant during the filming of "The Tholien Web," we see the delta is on their uniforms, although they're strangely hidden from sight... the positioning of the dead bodies and even the restraining harnesses seem to be strategically determined to avoid showing patches at all... so maybe they're not even on the uniforms at all! In any case, "we're gonna get cancelled" syndrome is probably setting in, and the giveadamn quotient for minor details like patches is rapidly drowning in the tanking ratings and shrinking production budget, so at this point, any 'future passionate discussions' Justman may be pondering are long gone from his increasingly frustrated fertile mind, replaced by thoughts like "I just want to get this over with!"

    That about sums it all up...
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  3. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely beautiful, just made my day! :techman:

    The only thing I wonder is Gene Roddenberry's participation in this. With Justman not being around, the individual ship's insignias needed to be authorized, so maybe Theiss brought it up to Gene who liked it and didn't (want to) remember the gentleman's agreement he had with Justman?

    Bob
     
  4. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    In my opinion, Starfleet in the 2260's consisted of numerous sub-fleets, each having its own insignia. So Enterprise and the jerks in the officer's club in "Court Martial" are all in, say, the 1st Fleet (or maybe the EUSPA Fleet?) and Exeter, Constellation, and Antares (and Defiant as per "In a Mirror Darkly") each belonged to different sub-fleets under the larger umbrella of Starfleet.

    --Alex
     
  5. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "the flowery star was something sold in a craft shop, and is in fact still commercially available today."

    Where can you get that? I always liked it.
     
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Explanation D, all starship personnel up through Captain wear the exact same group of insignia, there isn't a Enterprise's special insignia.

    Officers above Captain (let's make Tracy a "fleet captain") and members of their personal staff have special insignia.

    Non starship personnel have their own insignia. JAG has their own, so do merchant marines.

    Since Kirk and Mendez were chasing the Enterprise with some expectation of catching it.

    Shuttles are speed boats.

    Or, the Lexington was constructed/modified to act as a fleet command ship, and had a regular bridge in the regular place, but also possess a flag bridge somewhere else aboard the ship.

    The Lexington's commanding officer was in the Captain chair on the bridge, commanding just his ship. Wesley commanded the entire fleet, but not directly the Lexington.

    When Wesley ordered a course change, it was for the fleet in general, and not the Lexington specifically.

    :)
     
  7. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe, but the Starbase 11 shuttle didn't stand a chance of catching Enterprise in "The Menagerie". Kirk pushed the shuttle past its safe point of return without having caught up to the starship.

    In practice, shuttles might at best match a starship for speed, but with a much shorter range. So if Wesley shuttled ahead of Lexington, how much time did he save? A few minutes? An hour? Hardly seems worth it.
     
  8. MarsWeeps

    MarsWeeps Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    I think Kirk did this on purpose, knowing he'd never catch the Enterprise and also knowing that was the only way to stop Spock. He knew Spock would not leave him to die in a stranded shuttle.
     
  9. CrazyMatt

    CrazyMatt Captain Captain

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    Corner Flower Bead Stand
    P.O. Box 01 Odell, IL 60460
    Phone: 815-312-2017

    Lg White Vintage Large Plastic White Filigree Flower Bead

    Only a dollar each! Even TOS had the budget for them.
     
  10. CrazyMatt

    CrazyMatt Captain Captain

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    Sigh... regrettably, I goofed. If Nomad were here, it would yell out "YOU ARE IMPERFECT... YOU ARE IN ERROR" and then vaporize me.

    Turns out "The Ultimate Computer" was shot the week before "The Omega Glory," not the week after.
     
  11. johnnybear

    johnnybear Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Most of the ships we see in TOS are the Enterprise's sisters.
     
  13. johnnybear

    johnnybear Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  14. johnnybear

    johnnybear Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes I know, I was being a rascal!
    JB
     
  15. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Explanation E
    The Enterprise really is the Flagship in TOS, just like the Enterprise D is later, thus the Enterprise has the generic Starfleet insignia.