Starbuck's speech about Cain

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Deckerd, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    She just stood there. Any soldier would have tried something. I think she knew she was crazy and knew it was time to go. Obviously from my OP I fundamentally disagree with the 'safer' assessment. I think it was poor scripting, personally.
     
  2. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm with you there. How the frak were they safer with her? If you were an officer or soldier, she was likely to shoot you in the head on the spot if you questioned any of her orders, like she did to her XO/best friend (in her first sociopathic act, which incidentally happened before she learned about Gina). If you were a civilian... she would just leave you to die or shoot you to begin with, because you're just a useless puny civilian who can't fight the Cylons and the military is all that matters. If Cain had stayed alive, a civil war would've erupted in the fleet. And that's actually the better alternative compared to the other one - Cain gaining full control of the fleet, which would've likely meant bye bye to the 30,000+ civilians and the end to any hope of rebuilding the human race and the civilization. (That's why Roslin decided to have her assassinated when she learned what she had done with the civilian fleet.) Cain didn't care about that - she just wanted to hurt the Cylons. Her war was ultimately destructive and pointless. She had no goal except revenge.

    It also pissed me off big time when Adama said at the end of Razor that she was a tactically perfect commander - when what we saw of her tactics on screen is that she walked right into a Cylon trap (which her XO warned her about and got a bullet in the head for it) and got half of her crew killed, because she was so eager to destroy the Cylons.
     
  3. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Lack of objectivity and tactical insanity aside, I think, as I've said before, that her sociopathic behaviour infected her crew. The miracle is that they survived at all until they bumped into Galactica.
     
  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, Cain was volatile and her methods were borderline psycho and most definitely extreme, but think about it like this for a minute: would you rather go into battle with someone who is a known hard-ass who might go a bit off the deep end at times, or would you rather go into battle with somebody like Adama? Starbuck, given her background, was someone who would've clearly chosen the former, despite her long father/daughter relationship with Adama, because I think she recognized that sometimes it takes a crazy person to survive war, especially when you're dealing with foes as capricious as the Cylons were at that point.
     
  5. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    I always read Cain as being a touch, if not comletely, suicidal and throwing her ship and crew into these crazy combat engagements in the hope that one of them would be the one she was killed in. She was paranoid: her lover was a Cylon...her whole crew might be Cylon, best cut out the infection, kill them all. The reason she was winning, is that she was so batshit that she flew in the face of all logic and reason and the Cylons didn't know how to handle it. Her crew turning savage was a side-effect or symptom her madness.
     
  6. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    ^^^ While at the same time proving the Cylons' rather negative opinion of humanity overall.
     
  7. Trubinator

    Trubinator Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I also recall being somewhat annoyed at the time. Looking back though, I think Cain's tactics were arguably effective and helped keep her crew alive. That's not to say her decisions were moral or correct, but being a hardened badass when the human race is near-extinct certainly can't hurt.
     
  8. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Yes except that Adama managed to keep a fair number of the human race alive and kicking and his crew wasn't psychotic. I'd say as far as badass leaders go, he didn't do too badly.
     
  9. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Adama, obviously. Do I follow the commander who is trying to keep people alive, and who cares about his crew and leaves no (wo)man behind, or the commander who doesn't care if everyone dies as long as she gets some revenge on the enemy, and who's likely to shoot me in the head if I question her insane orders? Is that even a contest?

    Based on what? From what I saw, Starbuck always respected Adama as a commander and was very loyal to him. Can you remind me of any occasions when Starbuck indicated that she thought Adama was a wussy commander and that Cain would be much better?
    People were doing a much better job surviving the war under Adama than under Cain.
     
  10. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    ^^^ I would have to agree with this. Despite her tomboy-crush on, and general respect of, Cain, Starbuck was still willing to put a bullet in her head at Adama's order. She was ready to do it, too, until the stand-down order came. She may have hesitated for a second or two, but I have no doubt she would have pulled the trigger, even if it meant her death at the hands of Cain's security forces/marines that were present in the CIC at the time.
     
  11. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    I think the way her mum treated her must have affected her decision to pass Zack when he wasn't up to standard. She didn't want be hard on someone she loved. Like her mum had been.
     
  12. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Look at Adama very early on and he wasn't particularly keen on having the civiallians along either.

    He wouldn't have left a member of his crew behind but the civillians I think could well have been another matter.
     
  13. Good topic. Well, sorry to tell you this, but a lot of people thought that Cain made them safer. Everyone on the Pegasus, Starbuck, and Adama. Adama himself said he couldn't find any fault with anything Cain did from a tactical perspective. That last scene in Razor in pretty much a vindication to her.

    Lee was torn up about having decided to sacrifice Starbuck and rest of the away team (a decision that was overruled by Adama). He also said Shaw didn't deserve a medal. Adama basically told him not to be naive and that Shaw indeed deserved a medal, and that the decision to sacrifice the away team wouldn't have been the wrong decision, implying that Cain would've done it in a heartbeat.
     
  14. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Troll! Thread resurrecting, possibly re-IDed bridge-dweller!
     
  15. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Possibly, nothing. He's repeating some of his earlier diatribes verbatim.

    I must admit: under other circumstances there'd be a good joke here comparing Cylon resurrections to returning trolls.
     
  16. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    Kara knew Cain for what ... 2 week, 3 week. Not enough to get an idea for person.

    I felt that Cain was working hard to get Kara... for future I assume.

    For myself, I suspect that Cain eventually intended to kill Adama, just wanted more opportune time. Maybe Roslin, Zarak and others were also on her revised kill list.
     

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