Star Trek TWOK Blue Ray oddity

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Not sure what you're referring to, but the steely blue tint is all over the movie.
     
  2. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really hate the steely, blue tint. Everything looks washed out. That film always had a warmer look to it. I don't know why they did that. I prefer the DVD to the blue-ray.
     
  3. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    There is an HD version of the TWOK DE on iTunes, which looks pretty good. Seems to be the same transfer that had been used for the DE DVD, only that it's HD.
     
  4. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Here here.
     
  5. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I don't care about the tint, but the problem with the TWOK transfer is that it's not consistent. In many shots, Regulus has a blue hue, but in a few others, the old red hue is still visible. In many respects, the restoration to the original negative was very well-done, but the color-grading change was a mistake.

    Hopefully, if Paramount ever gets around to releasing the DE in HD, they'll fix the issue.
     
  6. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Yep, aside from TWOK which got screwed around with by some idiot post engineer (blue tint), all of the Blu-ray releases seem to really just be the original scans of the film done back circa 2001-ish for the DEs (where were scanned at 1080p back then, which at the time was considered high resolution, since the final output was 480i DVD).

    As an aside, time and again it's been shown that home video projects done in the late-90s and early-2000s do not hold up very well when distributed in their full HD resolution. The scans were done at exactly 1080p with early HD film scanners and the entire project was prepared with DVD in mind, not full resolution HD.

    Yet another sign that Paramount could give a rats arse about the prime-universe Trek movies, they just quickly threw the same old transfers they had around for HD cable/satellite movie channels on to the Blu-ray release. Then to make it worse they appear to have let some stupid intern play around with color grading software for the TWOK release.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  7. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know, but TMP looks a lot better on BluRay than it did on HDTV.
     
  8. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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  9. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The color shift reminds me of the horrible restoration job the Smithsonian did on the TOS Filming model on display- instead of making it true to the original somebody unfamiliar just imposed their personal, trendy aesthetics...
    I was considering getting the Blu-Ray of TWoK and now I think I will just hold off until a better edition is released
     
  10. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am so glad we finally, so far, have a consensus on the terrible color tint of TWOK Blu-ray!

    Absolutely stunned there haven't been posts by the few crackpots who claim the 1982 thearical prints had that exact same blue tint.

    That's right, there are a few who clain 'to remember' for sure it ALWAYS had that awful blue tint in 1982--including Regula!

    Which of course would mean EVERY promotional still and clip and TV ad back in the day was wrong and that only the prints in 1982 were blue-while EVERYTHING else associated with the movie was wrong.

    I even posted a picture of a 1983 calendar tie-in of TWOK that had Regula in it's full red-brown glory and was told that it was wrong and regula was always blue.

    And a couple of these folks claim 'they recently saw' a vintage film print and Regula was blue--to which I say BS.

    I've heard other people who recently saw a showing of an old print confirm Regula was always brown.

    The lack of the Director's Cut and the cyan/blue altering of TWOK are why I have still not purchased TWOK on Blu-ray.

    I dearly pray that we get a 2016 re-release with the Director's cuts, deleted scenes, 4k restorations of the other 5 TOS movies and PROPER color timing for TWOK.
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks for finding that link---really shows the sickening job they did with the Blu-ray color.

    Here is the vintage 1983 calendar that was released/sold in 1982. The nebula is supposed to be throwing the brown tinge all over Regula and the Ent in the shots where ent is in the vicinity of Regula.

    http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Wrath-Khan-Calendar/dp/B0035XSC6I
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What I think they are saying is that they used the same print transfer for the Blu-ray as the HDTV streaming--NOT that they didn't improve/restore it.

    In other words they used the same transfer--although they may have cleaned it up better for the Blu-ray release.

    What the other folks are saying, I think, is why didn't they go to the orginal camera negatives and make an all-new 4k master?

    So yes, the Blu-ray can look better than the HD streaming version without being the best quality it could be.
     
  13. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    This is essentially correct. Garbage in - Garbage out as they say. The source of all the HD versions out there seem to be the same rather mediocre HD scans done circa 2001.

    Yep. I think we'd all love a proper 4k scan of all the movies and real care shown for the dirt and scratch repair, not just a quick and dirty blur (digital noise reduction) across the entire frame.

    It's funny you bring that up. There's a guy over at AVS Forum (a big A/V enthusiast forum if you've never heard of it) that does streaming versions versus DVD versus Blu-ray disc comparisons and he did TWOK.

    http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474847/star-trek-ii-the-wrath-of-khan-blu-ray-vs-online-vs-dvd-vs-vhs
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's a very cool link, but how did he watch 7 or 8 versions of TWOK and not notice/mention the cyan overload of the Blu-ray?

    I mean we knew the Bluray was gonna win that comparison test.
     
  15. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    He does mention it, very briefly.
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks, I'll re-read it.

    LOL, yep he mentions the unrestored version as 'reddish looking'---which ironically is actually what the movie is supposed to look like before they turned the blue/cyan up to '11' on the restoration.

    One of the reasons that they tend to turn down the red and turn up the cyan for Blu-ray is that all the previous video formats VHS, Laserdisc and DVD all had problems with the red 'blooming' and looking unnatural.

    In fact, Nick Meyer in his commentary for the 2-disc set comments on this problem occuring 'on video' but 'not on film'.

    Therefore ever since Blu-ray came out they have tended to try to fix the problem of the past on a format where it isn't really a factor anymore, by turning down the red and turning up the cyan.

    Oh well, hopefully next time they'll get it right or a least closer to what it should be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  17. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Actually, ever since Blu-ray came out, most films have been pushed to be restored by people that care, which includes proper color timing.

    Why the cyan thing has become popular doesn't really have anything specifically to do with home video. It's fad in Hollywood, blockbusters in theaters right now have it. It has to do with skin tones and complementary colors.
    I posted this link on page 1, but I guess you missed it:
    http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html

    Apparently just about everyone in Hollywood is now drinking the teal/orange Kool Aide.
    Because of this they are retroactively applying it to some re-releases of movies (for example: James Cameron signed off on doing it to Aliens when it was released on Blu-ray), while really most are treated with respect and restored properly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  18. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You say most are restored properly, but I see forums everywhere complaining about the cyan 'problem'.

    So while most may be restored properly--many it seems are not.

    In any case we got ripped in the case of TWOK.

    I think you may have misunderstood me. I meant, in the case of movies having too much cyan--some techs think they are 'fixing' a problem by turning up the teal--whereas with Blu-ray they could simply leave it as it was meant to be and it would look good.

    That was a knock of VHS epecially that the reds bled and didn't look right--which Meyer commented on.

    So for some movies, unfortunately they are turning down the red and up the cyan for no good reason--either because it's a fad or because they mistakenly think it supposed to be that way.

    In the case of TWOK--they turned Regula which the film-makers wanted to NOT look like earth's moon---into something on the Blu-ray that looks exactly like earths moon in color and then add in the craters..........
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  19. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Next weekend a local cinema is showing TWOK again. I asked what version and the ditzy teenage girl told me the "HD studio" version.

    Am I going to be in for a sappy cyan-covered mess when I see it in the theater?
     
  20. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well let us know.

    Check for the color and if the print is faded etc.

    And thanks!