Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Jiraiya, May 9, 2009.
As far as I know the film was finished for its original release-date in December '08.
It was a TV series on a budget and a TV schedule not a feature film. I highly doubt 22 episodes each season had notes that were meticulously kept about the footage and the transfer logs. Nor did they most likely keep the 1" videotapes or 3/4" dubs of a timecode/keycode burn-in window roughcut.
We know Paramount saved the 35mm camera negative from the above post since Michael Okuda confirmed that with Paramount but that is a lot of footage.
TNG episode director cuts
AuntKate brought up something on another thread about a memorable episode
Memory Alpha mentions:
I wonder what a 'director's cut' would look like?
Perhaps if TNG does eventually get a TNG-R a few episodes will get revisited and get a 'director's cut' if Paramount/CBS and Gates McFadden were interested in doing it. That itself would raise the price for remastering those episodes as:
1. they may increase running time of the episode
2. music cues would no longer be the same
3. would need additional sound FX
4. would need to have a complete remix on the sound for all scenes changed and music, FX added.
5. they would need to retelecine more of the original camera negative for the director to be able to look at (even if just in standard definition) to do a new edit, and then the selects would have to be retelecined at high definition to conform to the new edit.
Perhaps if a fan-collective of 8 episodes were done as a test in HD for Blu-ray it could be director's cuts of a few? Would that be enough to get people to buy them in HD?
Yet they were able to find the exact scene they wanted from Menage a Trois for scanning for the finale of Enterprise, so presumably they are indexed in some way...
So a lot of fans think TNG would transfer to HD quite adequately without a lucas style interference of the effects, and I don't buy it. And then I watch "Thine Own Self" on Virgin 1 and I have to ask what exactly is being smoked? Data has his face torn off, flashing lights aplenty. Now, in all honesty, how can anyone defend these effects? His face is swollen to accomodate the interior detail but it looks terrible. Really terrible. OK for the day maybe, but the day as passed.
How could anyone in charge of a HD release let this episode pass without a major rework and expect to find further work?
To those who argue the original effects are adequate, I say, get real, and watch the series again. Much of it stood up on a 12"" black and white portable in the late eighties, but now? Not even close to acceptable.
I agree and just like TOS-R if it happens we'll see TNG-R. Visual effects would be redone in CGI. Physical live-action effects may not be redone though. It would be up to the producers. It's purly a cost thing and there WILL BE a budget they have to keep to.
There a 7 seasons. Before committing they may decide to do a fan collective type of thing to see about cost and time to do say 8 episodes before making the decision to commit resources to the entire season 1.
Simple. Those are the FX of the show. The horribly unconvincing plane flying at the beginning of Casablanca wasn't changed when it went to blu-ray because that's part of the original movie. I'm against changing things for the sake of changing things; the whole point of doing HD transfers is to preserve the original content, not change anything. No colorizing movies for me, no crazy digital changes just because we can. The HD transfer of the Twilight Zone changes absolutely none of the many silly-looking FX.
However, that argument doesn't even matter. The TNG remaster folks would have no choice but to change the FX. TNG will never get a proper HD transfer without all new FX. So your argument and mine is neither here nor there.
Well... redoing digital effects would have no bearing on practical effects, such as Data's facial damage in Thine Own Self.
The 35mm resolution transferred to 1080p would show practical effects very sharply. It also shows flaws of props and makeup that do not hold up beyond 500lines of resolution.
The effects quality in question for many posts on this thread is the early CG visual effects that do not hold up very well in the first few seasons.
Something just occurred to me.
Generations is about to be released on blu-ray. I had forgotten that there was one TV series stock shot of the ship reused, yet it didn't look like crap on the big screen and will presumeably be in high definition on the blu-ray release. Doesn't this imply there are still film masters of the ship shots at least?
TNG Remastered I say in 20 more years or when TNG is 40 years old.
For a remastered TNG I would love to see some new ships not the 40th Excelsior or Miranda. More importantly I want to see no more shots of the 4 foot model. It is so very clear in season 3 and later when the 6 footer model was used and then the fat bottom 4 footer was used.
Wow you really think they will wait another 20 years? That is a LONG time! I think they will of least attempt a Fan Collective set in the next couple years to see how it turns out and how the sales are.
The stock material shot for "Encounter at Farpoint" was made by Industrial Light & Magic. Most if not all of the remaining ship shots were made at Image G. The GEN shot from TNG had been made by ILM. That's not to say that film elements of all the ship shots don't exist. I'm just saying that it's possible that only some -- perhaps very few -- ship shots still exist on film.
Are you kidding? That shot stuck out like a sore thumb because of how crappy it looked compared to the amazing effects work done by ILM in that movie.
It looked like crap because Matakovitch, the guy who had to put it together optically (not digitally), had to try to time and wedge it to make the different paint job seem something like the GEN paintjob (impossible to do) AND eliminate a ton of weave in the elements ... it was a total nightmare, and basically just because Berman and Lauritson tried to save half a day of mocon stage time at ILM.
The MINIATURE fx from the first few seasons don't hold up well, because a lot of them (the ones with the 2fter especially) looked horrible 20 years ago.
They look like 1985 TZ eps, which for me is worse than most TOS fx in lighting and presence.
Star Trek TNG FX season 1 & 2
What are TZ eps? Do you have a Memory Alpha URL link?
By the way I was just watching the special features on season 4's last disc and I checked out the last 2 episodes and man are they unsharp! They just do not compare to Voyager which was only 5 years later and that is due to the telecine used at the time of production and if it were telecined to digital tape in 1990-91. As far as I know they used D2 video format to master to.
Re: Star Trek TNG FX season 1 & 2
TWILIGHT ZONE. Rob Legato, the vfx guy on TNG, was doing similar stuff for TZ a couple years earlier, compositing film elements on video, along with what looks like chromakey stuff.
I don't have to go to TREKCORE or anyplace else to remember how bad some of these shots are. Just look at the end of LAST OUTPOST for the two xmas ornament lookin' ships in front of the planet. Pretty much all the 2ft ship shots look rough to me. A lot of that is the 30fps instead of 24, which always makes it harder to do scale stuff credibly, because the higher frame rate gives it more of a video like presence (if you have ever seen the old movie OKLAHOMA, you might know what I mean ... it was filmed and shown at 30fps, and it has this awful unfilmlike feel.
There was SOME really good stuff. That terrible time squared episode had some really nice work in it that should have been in a better episode.
Here is an update this week from a review of
Star Trek The Original Series: Season Two (Blu-ray) review
He is referring to the TNG feature films being released in Q4 2009 and TOS season 3 on Blu-ray through early 2010:
September 17th, 2009
Woo hoo! that's Q4 2010. So if they do anything I'm guessing the reality may be 2011 for any TNG release on Blu-ray in any form (entire seasons vs. fan collectives vs. best-ofs)
And it is highly doubtful they would not keep TNG episodes' original aspect ratio of 1.33:1 full frame.
I hope this is the case. The sooner the better!
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