Star Trek: TMP questions and observations

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Gotham Central, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's very true, G.C., and it is weird in light of the fact that McCoy would be the last person to blend into the background without speaking his mind!
     
  2. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Your point about Kelley's contract may be true. But as for the in-universe reason for McCoy's presence, Kirk valued his skills as an advisor more than he did his experience as a physician. McCoy was there more for Kirk's benefit than anyone else's and likely would not have been had Decker commanded the mission.

    Indeed. McCoy's most meaningful scenes happened away from the bridge, which makes his being there even more puzzling. His reading the riot act to Kirk happened in the latter's quarters. His interaction with the Ilia probe happened wherever the probe was at the time. And he was present during the away mission that concluded the crisis as Decker departed with V'Ger.

    --Sran
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not sure, but in the bit where McCoy arrives on the bridge and just stands there watching for a while before leaving, I think the reason he came to the bridge was to escort the healed Chekov there. At least, I think they came in together. That was during either the cloud or the flyover sequence, so maybe McCoy just watched in awe and saw the others watching in awe and decided there was nothing much to say.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    McCoy escorted Chekov to the bridge, but his line ("Or a crew of a thousand ten miles tall") was cut.
     
  5. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    The line appears in the "Special Longer Version," as I was surprised when it wasn't included in the DE.

    --Sran
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's because it's a dumb exchange and it's redundant. First, we're about the fly over the damned thing for 5 minutes to see how epically ginormous it is (show not tell), and Uhura's setup line of "It could hold a crew of tens of thousands," is delivered like a first year theater student.
     
  7. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    McCoy would have had reason enough to be on the bridge to check up on how possible psyche-ward patient Kirk is doing. Is Kirk losing it and barking more stupid orders, or has he learned his lesson, dusted himself off, and is he getting into the grove of being captain again, to save the Earth from possible digitization?
     
  8. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Well, he missed the near-explosion between Kirk and Decker after the latter suggested a defensive stance against the intruder. Kirk snapped at Decker and seemed like he was about to go off before Spock interrupted with his theory about there being an object at the cloud's center. I'm not sure if he would have been reassured that Kirk accepted Decker's reasoning for his continued suggestions or worried that Kirk almost lost his cool again because Decker was merely doing his job.

    --Sran
     
  9. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some of the acting is rather stilted here, which I partly blame on the fact that most of the cast hadn't been in anything too much for the previous decade. Even Shatner, though, who'd sustained himself on T.V. guest spots, primarily, delivers lines on some scenes surprisingly bad, even for him! Partly, also, I blame this on the near-constant rewrites. These performers needed to be practiced with their dialogue to deliver lines with any realism. I also blame the tight shooting schedule. First takes appear to be the order of the day, especially with the second banannas ... again, the rewrites did not help, here.
     
  10. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Never tried to Channel my inner One Take Shatner! :lol:
     
  11. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    This did not have a tight shooting schedule, far from it. Geez, they spent well over a week just on the wormhole interiors.

    If you consider how much of the film was shot on the bridge, which SHOULD hae speeded the shoot, then the amount of days on the shooting schedule is seriously more than healthy.


    Now, it did have a tight post schedule, given that they were running so far behind in that area and they had to deliver 550+ VFX shots that accounted for half the running time.
     
  12. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought I'd remembered reading that Doug Trumbull spent a week in the hospital after finishing up his work on this movie! :eek:
     
  13. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sir.............................................
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Someone once told me that the Ilia probe need not have even been female, for Decker to have been motivated to join with V'ger. Saying that he did so because it was quite historic and once-in-a-lifetime ... and all of that stuff. Truth-be-told, it's not entirely clear, in this movie, what Decker's real motivations are.

    Why is he so willing to sacrifice himself?

    We just don't get to know him well enough to understand it. Yes, there are justifications, of course: Earth's jeopardy and to reunite with his lost love for all eternity, being the main ones. But why submit to his own destruction, even after McCoy's protests? Surely, some other arrangement could be reached? Was Decker's career in STARFLEET threatened by his demotion - did he have nothing else to look forward to, or live for?

    Even if he'd just blurted out, like Shinzon had, "some things are worth dying for ..." it would've helped alot. Instead we get, "... I want this!". Why, Decker? WHY?!?!!! It's cool-looking, though, and his leggy piece of fluff diving into the frey certainly gives it a romantic aspect. Our ignorance of Decker sort of lessens the impact of what he's done, though ...
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    IIRC correctly V'ger was set to re-unite with its creator and like a "little child" would not have settled for less (not to think what may have happened if Decker would have said "No").
    Somebody had to offer the "human sacrifice" and Decker volunteered which IMHO just re-emphasized what kind of captain he could have become.

    But quite admittedly, it's somewhat odd that he volunteered with the enthusiasm he apparently displayed. Unless he just faked it to ensure that the others wouldn't interfere.

    Bob
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There was a deleted subplot involving Decker's interest in spritual unity and transcendence, which was part of what had motivated his interest in Ilia and the telepathic unity of Deltan lovemaking. V'Ger gave him the opportunity to experience that kind of transcendence. Unfortunately, that was all lost.

    Then again, if it had been left in, we might feel it was dated, since it does kind of reflect '70s culture and the mystical/transcendental movements that were trendy at the time.
     
  17. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Even without that context, I think it works on the level that, facing the "death" of the real Ilia and her "resurrection" via V'ger, he realized that Ilia was more important to him than commanding the Enterprise, and--having seen indications that something remained of the real Ilia as absorbed by V'ger--was willing to take the risk to "rejoin" her in her current incarnation.

    Plus he was going where no man had gone before and saving Earth in the bargain.
     
  18. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Before Voyager's second season aired, there were rumors Decker would appear in "The '37s" as one of the displaced humans encountered by Janeway and her crew. I'm not sure why the idea was dropped, but one wonders how Voyager might have turned out had Janeway decided to keep Decker as first-officer and left Chakotay behind.

    --Sran
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like to think that Decker's prime motivator in joining with V'ger was the whole saving billions of lives on Earth, over it being mostly about some kind of personal journey thing for Decker.

    McCoy: " Well, isn't it lucky for you that we just happened to be heading your way?"



    :)
     
  20. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    That's actually the ending I like for him, too. I'd rather Decker did what he did for Earth and for the Federation. It's actually a nice contrast with what happened to his father, given that Matt Decker went crazy before finally sacrificing himself in "The Doomsday Machine."

    --Sran