Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Indysolo, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    As I mentioned in the first post of this thread, the "II" is not on the 70mm prints. I started this thread in 2008 after seeing a 70mm print. Even note the title of this thread. The "II" is absent.

    That is the only difference however. There isn't any extra dialogue.

    Neil
     
  2. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    Boy have I. Around 2000 or 2001 at the Northstar we did a test for a new model of ORC 2000 Watt xenon bulb. Luckily it was off season in our smallest auditorium. When I went to start the first show of the day (luckily almost empty), the lamp started fine. After a couple of minutes there was a loud hiss for about 10 seconds and the bulb went out. At least it didn't explode. One of the seals on the bulb blew.We cancelled that show and I later put the old regular bulb back in and it worked fine. Two days later, after my day off, I come back and the engineer doing the test has put in another test bulb into the same projector. Then he leaves. When it comes time to start the first show, I hit start, the bulb strikes. Five seconds later: KABOOM! Luckily I learned years ago to stand behind the lamphouse when you strike a new bulb for the first time. I had assumed that the engineer had tested it before he left. Guess not. That auditorium was down for the rest of the week. This lamphouse was an ORC with a vertically mounted bulb. The exploding bulb sandblasted the reflective coating off of the reflector and the top end of the bulb shot up into the mirror destroying it. I'm glad that those lamphouses have double doors on both sides. Since the projector was running the dowser was open and we ended up with lamp glass (sand) in the shutter housing. They had us tape off the area around the lamphouse like a crime scene. The lucky engineer from ORC got to clean up the mess and repair the lamphouse. The following year we went back to using Christie xenon bulbs. I never ot as many hours off of a ORC bulb as off of a Christie bulb.
    Back in 84', the 5K bulb on our main THX auditorium blew during the middle of a show. I was at the other end of the booth when it happened, and it was loud. We got a new Strong lamphouse out of that one. The bulb only destroyed the reflector, but I figured that it was just an opportunity to upgrade to something better. We upgraded the other THX auditorium a couple of weeks later. I'd like to know who the genius was that decided not to label the automation buttons on the side of the lamphouse. All they told us was green for start and red for stop.

    The soundtrack facing the wrong way was a trick I used to test new projectionists. As in "Here's a threaded projector. What's wrong with it, if anything."
     
  3. TServo2049

    TServo2049 Ensign Newbie

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    I'm going to see the 70mm print at the Laemmle in June. I'll try to take a cellphone picture of the title, just so we can have documented visual evidence of the "II"-less title screen.

    If anybody else is going, try to take a digital camera picture, too. (Since this is a one-time revival screening, I doubt the copyright police will be after our heads...:))

    Why did early prints and very early promotional materials not have the "II", anyway? One rumor I heard was that they wanted to disavow TMP; I don't know how true that is, since TMP wasn't truly a commercial failure even if it was a disappointment.

    And conversely, why did they decide to add "II" to the title? It was early enough that all pre-release trailers and posters said "II". Would Nick Meyer know anything about this?

    I wonder, did *only* 70mm prints lack the "II"? There are, after all, other cases of initial 70mm prints of films being different from the 35mm run (the 70mm prints of The Empire Strikes Back were quite different from the more "final" 35mm version, for example).
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  4. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    One of the most fascinating threads on this site...love the behind the scenes stuff you folks are texting about...keep it up..

    Rob
     
  5. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    I have a copy of "The making of the Wrath of Khan" (title not exact) around here somewhere. I think that the original intent during production was that TWOK would be the last Star Trek movie. Mainly since Spock died at the end. I don't remember if the "remember" scene was a pick up shot done later or not. I do remember that it was done on the fly to leave the possibility of Spock returning. As production went along the producers began to realize that they had a winner on their hands.
    I know I saw TWOK in 70 mm because I later worked at that theatre. I don't remember what the opening title card said. I believe that it's possible that the title card was different because 70 mm prints are usually struck after the 35 mm ones. You have to create a 70 mm master in addition to the standard 35 mm master. And a separate multitrack magnetic soundtrack has to be created.
    Back in the 80's those 70 mm prints were hugely expensive. We had a faulty magnetic soundhead partially shread a 70 mm print of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" about half-way through it's run. The soundhead manufacturer had to pick up the replacement cost of over $100,000. That was the first 70 mm print I got to build up on my own. I got to learn on "Ghostbusters".
     
  6. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    Hey Rob. It's Rob. Nice to meet you Rob.
     
  7. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Im the Rob from Earth two..LOL..nice to meet you to Rob. We should have a thread like this so we can ask behind the scenes questions..like this one....how much $$$ do theaters get for each ticket? or is their money generated by concessions only?

    Rob
     
  8. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    How do you react if anyone tries to call you "Bob"? Generally I ignore them until they get the message. Otherwise I warn them that I only answer to "Robert" or "Rob". Over the years I've worked with two "Bob"s , and they were both complete idiots. Which is really bad for theatre managers.
    As for movie tickets. It can vary wildly. Remember the first 8 - 10 percent goes to state and local sales taxes, depending on your location. The split between the exhibitor (theatre) and the film company is determined by the booking contract. Which can be done on a location by location basis.
    In the DFW (Dallas/Ft. Worth) market, contracts were done on a zone basis. The cities were split up into zones usually corresponding to the large shopping malls, where most theatre chains had locations. During my time, the DFW market had a huge presence from UA, General Cinema (GCC), AMC, and Loews. Cinemark, which is headquartered in Dallas, became a major presence around 1990. All of them had at least one theatre in each zone. GCC sometimes had two theatres in a zone. If the first theatre was successful, they'd build a second one nearby. As a general rule, no two theatres in a zone would play the same movie.
    The booking contracts were done on a percentage basis. With the film company geting the lion's share; usually 60 - 75 percent. And sometimes more. Usually the theatre got a higher percentage the longer a movie played. In the particularly luctrative zones, the theatre companies might negotiate a lower percentage for themselves to guarantee getting a particular movie versus their competitors. The theatre would make their money if the film had a long run. Sometimes this can get theatres in trouble if they do something illegal. When I was with GCC they had a practice called "guaranteeing grosses" with the film companies. They would guarantee that a certain location would make at least a certain dollar amount and would promise a huge percentage of that amount to the film company. Essentially a bribe.It finally caught up with them the Summer of 1990. Ever heard of a film called "Dick Tracy" with Warren Beatty and Madonna? That movie had been built up all year to be the huge blockbuster of the Summer. It tanked. Just about every GCC location played it. Every location lost money on the extra floor staff that Corporate told us to have on hand. GCC had to pay the film company money that the film never even made. Plus the theatres lost even more money on the films they gave up to play "Dick Tracy". I'm not completely sure but I believe that the government got wind of it and fined GCC even more money. The next year GCC started closing alot of locations, including mine. It took GCC ten years to die but it was that one act that killed them.
    In 2002, both Regal Cinemas and UA declared bankruptcy. UA did because they had overextended themselves building new stadium-style theatres. Plus the CEO, Stewart Blair, stole $900 million of a deal with Merrill Lynch to build additional theatres. Regal was just stupid. They were too busy worrying about paperclips, coupons, and pennies from advertising deals than the big picture. They still are. I'm just waiting for Regal Entertainment Group to do something just as stupid.
    I've gotta be careful. The Regal assasins might come after me for divulging sensitive data. They consider everything confidential company information.

    (Ex United Artists - Regal Entertainment Group employee)
     
  9. TServo2049

    TServo2049 Ensign Newbie

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    Well, I saw TWOK in 70mm. Anthony Pascale of TrekMovie.com moderated; he said it was the only 70mm print in existence, and warned us that it was faded because it was a Metrocolor print. He said that they tried to filter it, but it still looked reddish. Also, the sound was quite shrill - one of the audience members I talked to seemed to think that it was because the print was played back without proper Dolby decoding (meaning that it was unbalanced analog? - the treble was quite high).

    I was able to take a video clip of the title off of my friend's digital camera, but it was an old camera so the video clip was a 160x120 MPEG clip. I converted it to XViD and did some resizing and brightness-contrast adjusting just to make it legible. (Surprisingly, this cam-rip didn't pick up the reddish tint of the image, so the color looks more "accurate"...weird.) Finally, there is a visual record of the "II"-less title screen, however crappy it may be..

    http://www.supload.com/vid/TWOK-no-II/1393374575/avi/

    And here's a still picture:

    [​IMG]

    I should have just used the digital camera or even my cell phone to make a still, but oh well.

    Why is it that the 70mm prints lacked the "II", while the trailers and posters had it? I'm guessing that the change was made late enough that the "II"-less version had already been shipped out to make the 70mm blowups (due to the longer lead time), and it was too late to change it for the 70mm.

    I am assuming that somewhere down the line, the "II" version was cut into the 35mm negative, which is why the "II"-less version was never seen after the original theatrical run. (Can anybody recall if the no-"II" title was ever on any 35mm prints, or was it only 70mm?)

    My theory would explain why even the "original theatrical" Blu-ray has the "II"; the fact that the title was changed probably never crossed Paramount's mind. Perhaps the "II"-less version of the title doesn't even exist in their vaults anymore, or was misplaced somewhere.
     
  10. TServo2049

    TServo2049 Ensign Newbie

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    [Delete this redundant post]
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  11. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I can tell you that the original "no II" 70mm prints of ST II were shipped out internationally after the first few weeks' screenings in the USA. In Australia, we got ST II an agonizing three months after the US premiere and we definitely had no "II" for the sneak preview, the premiere and the first few weeks of screenings Down Under.

    Note that the novelization has no "II".

    Sometimes, in the 70s and 80s, film companies were discouraged from shipping the original heavy reels back to the US after the premieres, to save on freight costs for surplus reels that would be destroyed anyway. That's why many "lost" films end up in countries other than their place of origin.
     
  12. Leathco

    Leathco Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'll prolly never have the chance to see these in 70mm. All the theaters in my area only use 35mm or digital.

    However I have a 55 inch HDTV and a nice surround system. Granted, most of what I own is just standard DVD (other that st11 on bluray) and I think it's pretty immersing.
     
  13. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    KHANN!
    [RIGHT]KHANN![/RIGHT] [​IMG]
    [RIGHT]KHANNN![/RIGHT]
    KAHHN!


    Happy 29th STAR TREK THE WRATH OF KHAN (1982) 6th of June / USA 16th July UK

    The 70mm 6trcak DOLBY STEREO prints eat and spit out bluray!
     
  14. KarmicCurse

    KarmicCurse Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Detroit
    TWOK will be presented in 70mm at Detroit's restored Redford Theater!

    July 22nd at 8:00 pm.
    July 23rd at 2:00 pm and 8:00 pm.
    Tickets are only $5.00.
    http://redfordtheatre.com/movie/
     
  15. TServo2049

    TServo2049 Ensign Newbie

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    Film reviewer Jason Whyte finally took a good photo of the original title screen when he attended the Seattle Cinerama screening of that faded 70mm print. (Well, it was taken with an Android phone, but at least it's high-resolution).

    The full-size version can be seen here: http://twitpic.com/bdqpar

    Here's a smaller version:

    [​IMG]

    And here's an correction I did to get rid of the red hue of the faded print, and make it look less blown-out and contrasty. You can't see as many of the stars, but oh well:

    [​IMG]

    Thanks again to Mr. Whyte for the photo. Finally, a clear image of the II-less title.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
  16. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I just want to say that I think all these accounts by fairly recent film projectionists are fascinating -- and valuable fim history. Forget Star Trek -- I want to hear much more about changes in projection booths and what it's been like. Kudos to all!
     
  17. KirkPicard

    KirkPicard Captain Captain

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    Wrath of Khan in 35mm was screened last night in Philadelphia to a sold out theater http://filmadelphia.org/events/trek35/. The print had the numeral II omitted from the title as discussed here!
     
  18. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    I'm surprised (but delighted) to hear anybody is still screening 35mm. :)
     
  19. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Keep film alive.
     
  20. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    +1,000,000,000
     

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