Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Indysolo, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    Tonight, doubleohfive and I caught a screening of TWOK in 70mm. It was fantastic. The print was only slightly faded, and was clean and looked great. What we thought might be a grainy film was anything but grainy, looking glossy and very sharp. And the sound was also above average. This is one of those films that I've had on video since 1983, so it's imprinted on my brain. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it several times in the theater since (once on the Paramount lot for a special showing of the DVD longer version) and without a doubt, this was the absolute finest I've ever seen the movie. Everything about it was just right. If you get the chance, see The Wrath of Khan in the theater.

    And the reason I'm not calling it "Star Trek II" is because the 70mm prints DO NOT have the roman numeral "II" in the main title! It simply says "Star Trek" and underneath that "The Wrath of Khan".

    Also tonight we saw a 70mm print of ALIEN which looked and sounded fantastic, too. It was a great evening. I'm sure doubleohfive also had a good time.

    Neil
     
  2. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    The cinematography was stellar! It really was a fantastic outing and its so true what they say about there being a marked difference between watching a movie at home versus in a theater. It was almost bone-chilling when Kirk shouts out KHAAAAAAAN!!! and the Ceti eels were infinitely more creepy.

    All in all, excellent film!
     
  3. Haytil

    Haytil Captain Captain

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    I love seeing "Wrath of Khan" in the theaters. I recommend it whenever one has the opportunity!

    Because it's a fan favorite, the energy and excitement in the audience is ALWAYS high - plenty of cheering and clapping...and everyone shouts "KHAAAAAN!" at that right moment.
     
  4. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    Hey guys, that's great. My job at Paramount was actually tracking the film prints. There are very few 70mm around and even fewer 70mm projectors to show them on, where did they screen these?
     
  5. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, if this is going to make rounds I'd be interested myself, as the only time we've seen KHAN projected in Portland in the 21st century was a very faded very red 35 print, yet there is a theater capable of showing 70mm in town. I don't think that highly of the cinematography, but the color saturation on the vfx in the nebula would be enough to get me to see it theatrically again, plus 'the experience.'
     
  6. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    I hear ya, the mutara nebula stuff would look great. Those prints are HUGE, and it was decided a few years ago to leave just a few in the film depots. I'm suprised that anyone booked the 70mm and that Paramount gave the ok. I feel bad for the shipper who had to deliver the thing, hope they had a mini-forklift.
     
  7. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    The Royal Theater in West LA is having a 70mm retrospective. Today is the last day and they are showing The Hunt For Red October and 2001: a space odyssey. They've also played The Remains of the Day, Tommy, Pink Floyd: The Wall, Aliens, The Abyss, Titanic, Top Gun, Gremlins, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and The Untouchables. I only made it to TWOK and ALIEN as they didn't have a festival pass and were charging separate admissions.

    Neil
     
  8. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    A lot of people still insist we dreamt that title screen on premiere night. ;)
     
  9. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles HHHHIIIIIIIIIIII... Premium Member

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    Any chance this'll be making its way to the east coast? I'd love to catch a screening!
     
  10. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    Theaters that can show 70mm are not that common anymore, so I wouldn't hold my breath, sadly.

    Neil
     
  11. Mr. B

    Mr. B Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Out of curiosity, do 70mm blow up prints look better than standard 35mm?
     
  12. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    No, they look two to four times grainier, but you trade that for image size.

    70mm blowups often suck visually (TUC had some prints that were almost unwatchable -- I know, I had to try to watch one), but they do have a much better soundtrack because 5 whole mm were allocated for it.

    If you've seen a wellshot flick that was originated on 65mm movie as opposed to a 35 blowup, the difference is ... so far beyond huge.
     
  13. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    I'm going to disagree totally with that. I just saw these movies and marveled at how grain free, beautiful and bright the images were. I had people tell me (presumably based off of recent video transfers) that TWOK would be a grainy mess, but it was anything but. It was a very detailed image and very pleasant looking.

    And of course the 6-track magnetic tracks were wonderful.

    Neil
     
  14. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I've seen some 35 blowups that weren't objectionable, but they were lowgrain bright pics to start with (SILVERADO comes to mind.) TWOK was shot on fairly fast somewhat grainy stock, so these all compound the blowup issue.

    To be fair, I have only seen a bad 35mm print of TWOK in recent years ... I haven't seen a fresh one since 1982, and at that time I saw it a couple times in 35 and a couple in 70, and the only dif I recall was that you could hear the 'khan!' echo more times in the 70 version.
     
  15. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I’m beaming up and old thread here. :lol:

    I saw also saw Star Trek II the wrath of Khan at the Empire Lancaster Square screen 1 London on Sunday 8th October 1989 in 70mm Dolby stereo THX sound system via the cinemas original 13KW JBL sound system.

    It was basically a Star Trek marathon that started at 11am and end around 9:20 9:30pm?

    It included a rare screening of Star Trek V in at the Empire in THX because it was booked in at the Plaza which is near Piccadilly Circus.

    The low end on the JBL sound system was just stunningly out of this world!

    I thought I’ve seen Star Trek at the local cinemas I was wrong!

    All the rich soft details of the soundtrack of each film was hyper realistic in my, face chest stomach, the whole cinema rumbled like what old Sensurround did for “Earthquake” in (1974) in fact better!

    Star Trek the motion picture was 35mm optical Dolby stereo type A print
    Even this felt like 70mm the dynamic range was warp factor 10 fantastic with the wormhole sequence. The cinema rumbled deeply as it uses the sub bass extension module on the Dolby CP200 processor to enhance the lows. The whizzing sound effects moved along the surrounds caught my total attention! LCR fronts from 20 meters away from the screen, (I was sat in the circle or sweet spot) the details was crystal clear.

    All the rest was 70mm

    Star Trek II when the opening titles started the low end 40Hz that humming pulse sound that appears on the Paramount Pictures logo, was deeply pressing on my body! Now try this at home with the bluray while maintaining uniform frequency response!

    The scene where Sulu is thrown from the helm was felt like a body just landed right in front of me, on the floor it was that realistic it was scary!

    When Khan lifts Chekov off the floor “why” even that was felt like JOLT and not one single hint of audible distortion!

    When Khan shoves those things down there ears it was heart DEEP thumping beat that was so distributing, yet very clear! Creepy!

    When the Enterprise leaves space dock the low end rumble felt like a mild earthquake and its about to get better far better!

    When Khan unlashes his disgruntled revenge on the Enterprise it was like truck hit the side of the cinema! It was that hard that deep it was pure 70mm Dolby JBL THX performance, yeah try that at home!

    When captain Terrell vaporized one the scientists even that pasher hit was felt! Yes the phaser I kidd you not! So its kinder a bit up from where the sub bass plays from its mostly bass mid range.

    Empire was sussed out for bass and sub bass, and its still untouchable to this day with a 56KW JBL THX sound system for greater headroom!


    When the final battle between Reliant and Enterprise and James Horner’s score that had a few moments on its own, it felt fantastic the bass from the screen fronts was hard hitting and you’d thing it would be mostly just heard with lots of high end on the HF horns. No this was well balanced as well as EQ.

    I was told by one of the former chief projectionists at the site now retired, it was mostly the “Dolby preamps” that was reasonable for the high performance.

    THX, is just a certification of standards that has to be met.

    When the Enterprise was leaving the battleground the score was just going deep pounding nuts! It was trilling and I can still to this day recall 90% of how it suppose to sound and feel and that is rather rare, for one to remember something 20 years ago.

    When Genesis exploded it was like WHAM! KABOOM! It wasn’t flabby bass/sub bas it was hard edge bass to sub bass in my face!!
    If I played it like that at home, I’d have the neighbours bitching and moaning LOL it takes nearly 120dbc and that is LOUD!

    When music cuts in over the Genesis planet for the final end of the film, it deep, deep low end, it was priceless!

    When Spock narrated the words “Space the final frontier” and you might find in your homes the bluray sounding thin on bass/sub bass. The 70mm Dolby stereo type A print was a rolling low end rumble pulse that ended with mild jolt then the credits rolled.:techman:

    It was awesome and yes I recall very clearly for…
    Star Trek III
    Star Trek IV
    Star Trek V
     
  16. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It’s twice over the stage channels and once fading off into the monaural surround.
     
  17. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    I feel like Homer Simpson reading this thread: "OHHHH, 70 milimeterrrrrr!" (drools) I saw TWOK I'm sure in 70 mm opening week at the UA Prestonwood Creek 5 in Dallas, Texas. I still remember it to this day. And a year later I started my theatre career there on opening weekend of ROTJ. Everything that was available in 70 mm we got. And those prints were huge; one reel per film case and 7 or 8 cases per print. We ran "Top Gun" on two screens; one in 70 mm split-surround and the other 35 mm. Surround channels weren't split left and right in those days. I loved showing customers the difference between them picture and sound wise. That was the busiest location in the country for UA in those days. And we were the first commercial installation for Lucasfilm's THX Sound. The sound system upgrade was installed and tuned by the Lucasfilm guys, not UA's. 70 mm was fun but you had to tear the print down and rebuild it about every two weeks because the splices would stretch.
     
  18. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It’s a small world/universe, Captain Rob.

    I had a go at projection about the same year. 1989 for the same cinema chain local in my area Tower Park, Poole UCI 10screen, Paramount/Universal, in its day, now its cinemas are called, Empire cinemas.

    I left UCI around 1990.
    I joined Warner Bros briefly around 1998.

    Most of the cinemas I worked at sadly only had 35mm playback. I recall Cinemeccanica Vic V at UCI, wow had forgotten the name of the projector at Warner Village 12 screen, Bristol?

    The principles aren’t much different between the two projectors in lacing-up.

    UCI had basic system even though most other cinemas around where running a far elaborate set-up of duel 35/70 projection.

    The cinema processors were all Dolby CP65 same audio amps Sound Associates EV loudspeakers THX approved.

    Cake palters were all the same (in fact all the smaller had the same running equipment).

    Screens 5/6 where the same in dsgein and are located in the centre of the building as you enter the foyer the screens are to the left and right and span outwards from left/right.

    Smaller screens 1 and 2 booths where joined together and same with 3 and 4 and 7 and 8 and 9 and 10.

    Booth 5 and 6 had long narrow corridor leading to the next booth and all where capable of (interlocking).

    It was fun but lack of 70mm was huge thumbs down LOL.

    Still the optical A and SR prints sound good as the cinema was installed for type SR playback.

    Warner was slightly different. The whole booth was all on one floor level, so it makes the job easier, thou running around could cause and accident!

    The screens as far as, I can recall where two main large ones located in the middle of the complex, with medium size to smaller and ultra smaller LOL.

    The tiny screens thou still many times larger than home cinema in basement LOL had vertical masking and that was something I hadn’t seen before and no, I don’t like. I prefer the horizontal masking it just looks cool when it opens (((outwards))).

    The sound system was Dolby CP500 no I don’t like the look of them but as long as they do the job who cares? I think the amps were all QSC and KCS loudspeakers that kinder look like JBL 4675/A even the subs themselves looked like JBL4645 with three air-ports.

    The larger screens had 4 subs behind the screen and the mid size I think it was 2 subs same for the small and the tiny size screens 1 sub.

    Auditoriums looked smart and comfortable.:techman:

    When the cinema opened and only a few screens where showing films as some still needed some small work on them. I was running “Titanic” with co-worker and the flipping cake plate motor broken down! We had to take turns rotating the take-off platter for 3 hours!

    Our hands was black due to aluminium, we had already cleaned the platters days before to wipe off any traces of it and still our hands where black LOL.

    Sadly due to looking for place to live in Bristol and with money running thin I had quit, I was staying at hotel paid by Warner, but had 2 weeks to find a reasonable place to rent, Bristol also has few major universities and it was peek time summer for students and all the cheap accommodation around had gone.

    I just couldn’t think of handing over nearly £80.00 per week out of nearly £180 wage after taxes. sigh. So I headed back home, yeah I was really pissed off about that. I was thinking of buying tent and pitching it outside the Warner behind the building, but it would look a bit odd if I was living in tent :guffaw: outside a respectful company like Warner.

    Also I have read some history background regarding the cinema in Texas as one two first THX screens I believe, the other was in another state I think and soon spread like wildfire and international over the years.

    Are you still with the same company or have they changed the name or have you left the company?

    Today its all digital sigh. It’s the lost art in lacing-up a projector, now a push button job. sigh kinder takes the fun out of it.:(
     
  19. Epsilon-9

    Epsilon-9 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That’s interesting fact didn’t know that? Then again I’ve had the pleasure of handling 70mm
    35mm as far as I recall run for more than 2 weeks same print maybe 4 to 6 weeks it would be moved from one booth to another.

    I guess its the speed that’s pulling it though the projector and the weight of the print itself which is wider and taller by small bit. Also the magnetic tracks can flake and ware away YIKES there goes the sound!

    Yes it happened on Star Trek IV at the Empire when the Klingon bird of prey was heading towards the (Golden Gate Bridge) it was where the ship shuddered and vibrated and the lights went off! Then the sound went on all six magnetic tracks! It lasted just up until the ship crashed into the water/bay.

    So it was about 15s 19s loss of sound!

    Interesting because that was the first time I’ve heard that fault. Also the prints are costly at £16,000 grand, over 35mm at £1,500grand.

    I’ve also seen Batman 1989 at the local ABC Bournemouth, during the late 1990’s and the centre channel HF had loss of dialogue intelligibility it was all low end muffled sound when Vicky Vale goes to the bat-cave where she finds Bruce living another life as the Batman! LOL

    The sound restored to the centre HF just when Batman opens the vault with his Bat-suit. LOL
    “I’m Batman.” LOL

    Yeah its an odd thing with 70mm this is where 35mm Dolby SR-D makes things cheaper for all cinemas to playback Dolby six-track channel, only sad part is it can’t do five-screen fronts, except SDDS/8channel and how strange only few well more than few handful have ever been produced with 8channels kinder like 70mm Dolby format 43 with split-surrounds, where most was regular 70mm format 42, I’m not sure I think Dolby format 41 wide five screen stopped at some early point in the late 79’s or 80’s, can you confirm?
     
  20. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Did the picture look as blue as the BluRay quality did?
     

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