Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Loken, Nov 19, 2013.
Good job, solid episode!
Great episode. Am really going to miss James Cawley as Kirk. Hoping he reprises it some day.
< I don't know where my previous post went, so I'll retype it as best as I can remember. >
Firstly, to everyone in this project: There must be so much effort that gets poured into these episodes, and all this work is done and delivered to all of us for free, in the hopes of sharing in the fun and enjoyment of a series we all love so much. Thank you very much for all of your hard work. It does not go unnoticed.
That said, I wanted to list a few things I really liked, and a couple things I didn't like so much. This does not take away from the work involved, and I'm no professional critic. These comments are just the opinions of a long time viewer, and should be taken as such.
* The Enterprise! Oh how sweet it is, to see such a beautiful ship appear in high definition on my TV screen! She was the real star of the show, and she's never been so gorgeous!
* The acting has improved significantly. While there were a few cringey moments for me, the vast bulk of the episode was well acted.
* The dialogue was snappy. Good dialogue should validate the story, transition scenes smoothly, and progress character and plot arcs. In this, the dialogue succeeded.
* Pacing was very good. The episode didn't feel slow and plodding, neither did it feel rushed or confusing. The story moved along at a solid pace.
* The visual effects in this episode are the best I've seen throughout the whole series. The CGI was non-intrusive, and I didn't see much in the way of flashy special effects which served no purpose. Also, K-7 looked great!
* The set design was great! Everything from the bridge of the Enterprise, to the bar on Qo'nos was well done. The lighting set the tone well, and it did feel like I was seeing a different world. The only minor nit I have is that I saw the Klingon symbols everywhere. Now, on flags and large edifices it makes sense, but I saw some on door posts, walls, anywhere where it seemed there was a blank spot to be covered. So they were just a touch too prolific for my taste, but that's such a minor quibble.
A few acting mentions:
James Cawley turned in his best performance as Kirk here. There were times when James would speak or act, where it felt like Bill Shatner possessed him. It was very well done, so kudos to him for a great job, and I'll miss him as the Captain.
John Carrigan played Captain Kargh to the hilt, and I loved it. He is so good at making me think someone ripped a TOS character out of celluloid and dropped him into this film. He's delightfully hammy and villainous, all at the same time, and I have so much fun watching him work.
On a side note, I could have sworn one of the Klingons in the bar on Qo'nos sounded like Kruge. I also would swear on a stack of tribbles that I saw General Korrd as well, though I don't think it was in the bar.
Both Kruge and Korrd were in the bar!
Re: Star Trek: Phase II - Kitumba
I agree with this. It just amazes me at some of the behavior present between trek fans and productions. Being pretty new in making my own-I've heard so many things and again it just amazes me. Call me old fashioned but I would have thought that being a fan meant acceptance and a general respect for people. Treks basic philosophy seems to be totally ignored by many fans and its really disheartens me. It would be my wish that we all worked together to further the franchise instead of tearing each other down. I'm for ALL fans productions. More power to them and I'll do whatever I can to support them. Now to the title of this thread, Kitumba was a great example of fan filmmaking as expected by the fine folks at Phase 2. Cawley has turned in another winner and once again raised the bar. Overall an excellent job.
Ha HA! My observation skills win again!
I dug it. I've been wanting to see this story on the screen for ages and you guys didn't let me down!
And for what it's worth, I would much rather have a rushed story than a plodding, padded story.
There are nits that could be picked, but the only thing that really bugged me was the end credits. I know you guys have a lot of names to get through... but could you slow those things down a bit? You're going to give someone a seizure.
I have not had the opportunity to watch the entire video yet, but I would like to congratulate the Phase II team on putting out their latest effort, "Kitumba." No film project is ever easy and getting to release - whether via as storied or troubled a process as "Kitumba" faced or not - is a herculean task.
I did skim through the video and noted with some irony and disappointment that while Vic Mignogna is credited as the director of the episode, said title is buried deep within the end titles of the film, on at least third or fourth title card (following Gerard and Probert's credits as well as the listing of the entire cast) the series of which (as mentioned by Kelso) do seem to whiz by rather quickly. I'd have much preferred that the production team not make such a big fuss over Vic and his credit like this, but I applaud Phase II for at least giving said credit where it was due.
I will comment further after I've had a chance to watch the episode. For now, congrats to the team!
With all the mentions of the James Cawley/Brian Gross Kirk transition recently, I got to wondering: Will even the Cawley narration in the opening theme section be overhauled with a new Brian Gross voice track in the upcoming ''Holiest Thing''?
I'll understand if it does, but it would be a nice tribute to Mr. Cawley if the current version remained...
I actually found this rather childish. Just take the high road, put the credit at the beginning of the episode an be done with it. I've worked on quite a few film productions myself, and there's always going to be people with hurt feelings, but there's really no need to act in this kind of manner.
Overall, pretty good episode which is hampered by some very uneven acting from the guest stars, some poor audio (a problem which has plagued the production for years), and a script which suffers from a case of "fanserviceitis." But over all a pretty solid effort, and probably the best looking of the series so far.
I noticed that too (he's also not mentioned as a guest star in the opening listing over Act I, even though he's the main antagonist). But I'm not in Phase II's or Vic's shoes, so I'm sort of inclined to give it a pass.
I do think Vic's performance in the episode is very strong.
Ah... I know nothing about filmmaking, but I watch a lot of TV. The 'guest star' is often cast as the main antagonist in procedurals. Perhaps that's not true in other TV programs, but this would be normal in a procedural. He isn't the 'guest extra' or the 'guest supporting actor' or the 'guest cameo' he's the 'guest star.'
Late to the party watching this.
As usual, the best Trek fan production I've ever seen. This was a fantastic episode, and James Cawley as Kirk will be sorely missed.
Whether or not, and specifically how Vic would be credited in this production, given the enormous amount of bad blood Phase II seems to feel toward him for whatever alleged actions took place, was the subject of several heated discussions in this forum a few months ago.
Loken, who was all too happy to blather on and on about how he was running post-production on "Kitumba" and offer continual updates on the progress of same, ignored repeated queries about the matter, despite his very public loathing of Vic.
When the question didn't disappear because Loken chose to ignore it, Phase II's new showrunner, David Gerrold, popped by to spout off some PR-sounding verbiage (and ignoring the question) before finally suggesting that if Vic wanted to be credited, "he is free to write a letter to the Production Team explaining why he feels he deserves the credit.".
Finally Elvis himself entered the building and said once and for all Vic would be credited, albeit at the end titles.
I agree that it's rather childish and entirely unprofessional how Phase II has chosen how to handle this matter, considering that they are now releasing the production as their own official latest offering and Vic's performance and direction play such a large part of it, but it's also their sandbox.
I suppose we should be grateful they even bothered to mention the guy's name at all.
In Hollywood, credits and attribution are usually tied to money and payments in some way. As any of that is likely under the table (if at all) on fan films, it tends to be less of a consideration on that front. Here, it just strikes me as being Phase II's way of "striking back" at Vic for whatever wrong they perceive he committed against them.
In other words, you'd never see something like this go down this way on any professional show or film.
Self-edited to remove an unnecessary remark.
Thanks for the background info. That gives some more form to the matter, and it's a bit disappointing. Especially saddening to see that reaction from David Gerolld, who as an old pro in the industry should really have a different outlook.
Perhaps the most ironic thing for me is that I thought Vic's work here was so good. If it's truly a "high watermark" for Phase II, as some are suggesting, he was a big part of that and it's not really fair to hide his name like they did.
All of that said, I continue to be grateful for Phase II's continued commitment to Trek. If there's one good thing to come out of whatever their disagreements with Vic were, it's that there are now two separate production teams (Phase II and STC) putting out promising work.
Just to be clear....the order the credits are listed in a film/tv show are not standard by any means. In fact, it's pretty rare that a director gets credit at the beginning of an episode. Though I will say I think it's a silly discussion to bemoan where someone's name is listed, Vic was never listed as a guest star at the beginning of the episode - that didn't change after he tried to kill it. As the title of the show is "Kitumba" it's the Kitumba's actor's name that appeared before the episode in the original version.
"We" list the credits at the end in the order IMDb lists them. It's just easier to organize them that way... so Vic's name as director wasn't "buried" - it was listed with the rest of the production department his work was part of. I guess you could be complaining that James Cawley's name as Exec Producer was also buried.
In my experience, it doesn't matter how many times you check and re-check the credits - someone (okay a few someones) are always unhappy. This is one place that you simply cannot please everyone. (Does anyone remember that the original crew of the Enterprise found their names buried with the guest cast at the end of the episodes? "Guy in corridor - John Smith" "Uhura - Nichelle Nichols".)
The fact is that hundreds of hours (that is NOT an exaggeration) are spent trying to ensure that the credits on these episodes are accurate. There is a real faith effort to acknowledge everything the huge crew does. There are still honest mistakes, and there are always complaints about choices. In the end complaining about Vic's name being exactly where it belongs and yet not also featured is, well, just silly to me. It's not affecting his "salary" and it's not affecting his resume. It's a fanfilm for heaven's sake.
Why don't you both just make your shows?
And then please accept this in the spirit in which it is given: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THIS.
Although television credit placement has changed a bit over the years, it certainly is standardized, as per guild agreements.
Nichols was a day player with a "no quote" agreement. She was credited accordingly.
Well, I'm not sure how credits do what in which way anymore, all I can comment is on the episode, and it was terrific. It is currently my favorite Phase II episode. I didn't think anything would beat out WEaT, but it did!
Separate names with a comma.