"Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Admiral Buzzkill, May 23, 2008.

  1. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    Ummm... you guys do know that the best way to match up with the details of those paintings is to start out with what they were based on... the 18" AMT Enterprise Model Kit.

    I've worked with that kit enough in my lifetime to be able to pick many of the details out in a crowd. The primary hull and dorsal are from the original long box kit, while the dish is from the later short box editions. All of which shouldn't be surprising to anyone as there was an early study version done as a modification of an 18" model kit before work got started on the full size filming miniature. Of course the 18" study model wasn't fully completed as it was designed to help illustrate how the new major elements would go together, and so it wouldn't be odd for someone to assume that because the model kit originally came with a dish that one should be added to the painting (which is why the geometry of that dish matches the kit's version rather than the original's, and why the smaller dish from the later kit would be used rather than the larger dish of the original kit).

    Some differences between the long box and short box kit included the dimples on the underside of the primary hull (which were on no filming model) are not symmetrical on the original kit but are symmetrical along the center line on the later kit. Also the dorsal was fitting to the contours of the primary hull on the earlier kit while the later kit had a flat area added to the primary hull's under side where the dorsal would connect.

    Do you have images of these working sketches by Jefferies? The concept sketches I've seen don't address details in that area and all additional drawings of the ship are not only missing the dish itself, but also any reference to the concentric rings behind the dish or where the dish would mount in the center. Even that part of the final model under construction is missing the rings and mounting (though there isn't any reason why they couldn't have been added in later*).

    [​IMG]

    While I'm willing to admit that the absence of those details doesn't confirm that they were going to be absent on the finished model, I've seen no evidence (at all) beyond paintings (based on early test modifications of an AMT model... primary hull underside dimples and all) that it was going to be included.

    And anything that would provide a hint (either way) of what Jefferies was actually planning would be a tremendous find.



    * To answer the obvious comment of "but that part of the model isn't in any of the pictures," there is a nice shot from the front that shows that assembly sitting on the table in the background (next to what appears to be the hangar bay doors).
     
  2. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Now isn't that interesting. If that really is a Phase-II era painting, it helps make sense out of this image from Star Trek: The Magazine:

    [​IMG]


    (Click for larger version.)

    The text caption from that page:
    This model is pretty dang close to the Minor painting, with the exception of the deflector dish and red markings on the saucer. Is it possible the the Phase II model saw continual upgrades throughout its construction (as deadlines came and went), so that the final version looked like this? And it does appear to have the inset, glowing blue deflector instead of the dish.
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No. The model in your photo is not the Phase II model but the TMP model as initially constructed, before Trumbull came on to the film and requested additional detailing.

    For example, here's a page at Andrew Probert's site that shows specifically how the torpedo tube in your photo was transformed by further detailing into what we saw in the movie:

    http://www.probertdesigns.com/Folder_DESIGN/TorpedoTubes.html

    The Mike Minor painting that reflects the TMP changes was done later, after the changes had been made to the TMP model (not the Phase II model). He also included some red striping on the saucer which may have been intended but was never actually applied to the model.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I for one realize that. I was simply adding to the reference images. The "dimples" do give away the AMT source, but as many of the other details match the miniature Loos was building, I thought it was interesting additional reference.

    On the blueprint image you posted with the pentagonal docking port, is that the cross section of the engine pylon I see at the base where it connects to the hull?

    One thing I find curious is that, although an oversize section of the Phase II hull was built complete with the pentagonal docking port, that same feature doesn't appear to be present on Loos miniature, which makes me wonder if/when it was dropped.

    Another thing I puzzle over re the Loos model is the fact that all it has two port nacelles. You can see that the intercooler gizmo on the outboard side of the port nacelle is on the inboard side of the starboard one. I wonder if this was a mistake, or just that they had two castings of the port nacelle and temporarily mounted the second on the model while the starboard one was being fabricated.
    Well, actually, they were applied to the model at a point before the ship got it's final rework, but after that happened, the decals were left off. You can see them on the model on page 158 of The Art of Star Trek.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I assume that the docking port just hadn't been added to Loos' model yet - it's missing most of the detailing on the secondary hull.

    I believe that is the cross-section of the pylon at its base, on the blueprint in question - I used it for reference as such in building my mesh.

    It does look like Minor's "TMP" rendering is of the movie model prior to the "Trumbull refit" - it's missing the spotlight housings around the lower saucer dome and the torpedo tube looks like the early version.

    I left off the "photon dimples" because they appear only in the Minor rendering - not in Jefferies drawings or the Loos model - and because I hate them. ;)
     
  6. lennier1

    lennier1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    @Dennis: Impressive work. Hope she´ll get faint specular details which resemble hull plating instead of the typical aztec pattern.

    For those without a copy at hand: http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3598/errearbeauty1eb12dbw3.jpg
    Also note the TOS-style bridge superstructure and the smooth top of the impulse module.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One thing that always bugs be about those photos of the Loos model is the detailing on the aft centerline of the impulse deck. It just looks WRONG. It almost looks like it was intedned to be one long wedge and someone cut it in two and put the two pieces together in the wrong order. Has anyone seen this detail on any of the plans? It smells to me like a modelmaker trying to add some greeblie detail that just doesn't fit the lines of the ship.
     
  8. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    I'm of the opinion that it was done for convenience of the test fitting of the various parts. In addition to making sure that the model itself came together correctly, they were also making sure that it worked with the other model it would be sharing screen time with in the pilot... the dock.

    Personally, if I had been building this model I would have stopped work on the nacelle once I had reached the point were they stop being symmetric and made a casting of them at that point. It would have been easier to make the additional elements for the port and starboard versions after the nacelle bodies were cast and just added them on.

    One of the models cast from the Phase II Enterprise parts sold on ebay a couple months ago for just over $15,000 (here). It started at $3,000 but didn't stay that low for very long. It would have been interesting to see if it would be possible to restore it to the original Phase II specifications.
     
  9. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was appalled when I first saw one of these "hybrid" models built from Loos' work - they don't really honor either Jefferies' designs or the TMP redesign; they're awful kludges.
     
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Looks possible, Most of the hull shapes are unaltered. You'd have to hack the extra bits off, replace the bridge, redo the torpedo deck, etc. It would be a lot of work, but perhaps less than building from scratch!
     
  11. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    And it might retain a little historical value having that link to the original (though unfinished) model from Phase II.

    What I did get from that auction is that this was one of five such ships. And as Starship Polaris noted, esthetically these models in their current form have little value. So maybe someone will attempt a restore of one someday.
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What did I say, two weeks? I was only off by fifty times that.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Sarvek

    Sarvek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fantastic work, Dennis.:techman::techman: Your rendering is so accurate and finely detailed. Are you planning on doing some orthos?
     
  15. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Right now I have no plans at all, actually. I put these shots together pretty quickly because I got wrapped up in finally finishing the lighting and texturing on this thing and then wanted to see what it looked like in "space".

    I think it would be nice to work up a credit sequence for the second Star Trek series, though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  16. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  17. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Pretty cool.
     
  18. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    It looks surprisingly plain.
     
  19. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One would have to invent a great deal of detail which isn't in the drawings or the model (to the extent completed by Loos) in order to give the ship a level of detail even equivalent to the TOS Enterprise. That was done, for example, in the famous ST:TMP teaser poster incorporating the Phase II ship (a lot of windows were added to that image, among other things).

    I've been loathe to do that, at this stage - I added a couple of running lights that aren't documented in either Jefferies plans or the Minor paintings, and that 's about it.

    One imagines that if the model had been finished at Brick Price miniatures as designed, the producers might have reevaluated it and had detail added - as in fact happened with the TOS ship after the pilot.
     
  20. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    I'd start by adding back the surface details from the TOS saucer (since that's what it was supposed to be anyway), then play it be ear from there.
     

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