Star Trek: Online

Discussion in 'Trek Gaming' started by tranya, Nov 19, 2008.

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  1. Bertie

    Bertie Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    While I share the concern with some of the above posters regarding the Klingons and the setting in general — it is rather a shame the Prime universe has inflicted defeats on its more dramatically interesting antagonists, the Romulans and Cardassians, leaving the cartoonish, outdated Klingons the only ones left standing — a more serious concern is what the developer's recent MMOG release, Champions Online might say about its ability to deliver a quality MMOG with STO. For Champions, it seems (and I'm going by 3rd party reports since I haven't played it), is suffering from both from a pretty high bug count (by current MMOG standards anyway) as well as (more serious, since it is something that cannot be hotfixed) lack of content problems after you blow through the (comparatively short) character levelling.

    Now that said, even if Champions fails, that doesn't necessarily spell doom for STO; after all, MMOG developer Turbine failed a few years back with DDO, then brought out LOTRO a few months later which was a (modest) success. We shall see.
     
  2. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm probably remembering info from before the game switched studios but I seem to remember that while the Federation and Klingons have moved back to a more TOS relationship with the Federation, that this they were not the main enemy for either side and that there was a yet to be revealed opponent waiting in the wings, possibly helping shape the situation in the early 25th century.

    Whatever they do I hope they don't fall into the "Federation is always right" mindset with their storylines.
     
  3. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    Graphically, I like what I'm seeing. It's impossible at this point to tell much more about the game, how it deals with drudgery, what the feel of starship combat will be like - I will say I'm glad the game isn't being rushed. STXI was one of the biggest films of the summer, but they continue to work and polish STO.
     
  4. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Indeed. For one thing, it could probably rob some of the fun in playing for the Klingons!
     
  5. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    While I can respect both of your opinions, and I completely understand why Cryptic is doing what they're doing (i.e. making the two first playable factions the Federation and the Klingon Empire, and giving them PvP)... it's just not doing it for me anymore... *shrugs*

    I know there are as many people who hated Destiny as there are who loved it (afterall, we Trekkies are that way about EVERYTHING, just look at the huge controversy about the new movie). But I'm one of those crazy fans who's seen every episode, and read SO many of the books, that I have my own strong opinions about what should happen next in the post-Nemesis Trek universe... and the storyline of STO goes against that completely.

    That doesn't mean I probably won't give STO a go when it comes out! If the game is fun, then I'm sure I can overlook the story. But I don't think I'll be excited about it again until it actually comes out (maybe not even then).
     
  6. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's cool and all, but I imagine that if 2009 saw the release of either a film or TV series set after the TNG/DS9/VOY era, that we would still get something that went completely against all the expanded post-Nemesis material.

    Ah well, if you want to also subscribe to your own personal canon, you're more than welcome to. I know I do (USS Hood was the fourth most popular vessel in Starfleet! Why do I know? Shut up, that's why! :) ).
     
  7. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, a new film or TV series set post-Nemesis would mean I'd have to completely disregard the expanded novel material (assuming it goes against it) - but thats very different from one non-canon media (that is, a game) going against another non-canon media. In cases like that, then I do subscribe to my own personal canon and choose which story I like more! :lol:

    And if a new film or tv series used elements from STO, I'd have to accept that too - even if it'd be difficult at first. :p
     
  8. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Captain Captain

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    That's hard to say, however there's a couple of videos that simplifies the story all the way up to 2409:

    The Future Past Part 1: http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/.../star-trek-online-the-future-past-part-1?hd=1
    The Future Past Part 2: http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/start.../star-trek-online-the-future-past-part-2?hd=1
     
  9. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Cool, as always, thanks for the links Cap'n :)
     
  10. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Thanks a lot for these videos!

    The game-engine-cinematics-style footage from the 'PRE-BETA' helps and hurts. The medium-wide shots of the ships and colorful space, gaseous areas, planet textures, and gorgeous depth of planet rings, and lighting look good.
    The all-space battles remind me way too much of Star Wars The Clone Wars and SWpt.IV and even the music reminded me of Star Wars.

    Can anyone identify the music used in The Future Past Part 2 video?
     
  11. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What watching those videos I got a major DS9 flashback. Shapeshifters taking over a government and leading them to war. Klingons suddenly saying, "I know we gave it up but we want this sector back now. All Federation people need to piss off." It's like I'm back in later season 4/early season 5 of the show.

    I knew they were going to be in the game due to seeing one in a screenshot but if there was one species I could go without seeing again it would be Species 8472.

    Don't know why but the fact that the Federation and Klingons are at war in 2409 surprised me. I thought it was going to be a cold war situation not a actively going around blowing up your stuff war.
     
  12. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Maybe now you can understand my concerns from the previous page. It feels like a HUGE step backwards, and for what? So we can have some PvP? :rolleyes:

    Watching those two videos only made me dislike the story in STO even more. It feels like they're forcing too many disparate elements together for the sake of gameplay.

    The Klingons conquering the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions - only because they want more race options when you play as the Klingon Empire faction. (Which is an issue in itself I think, because if I want to play as the Klingons, or the Romulans, or any other monoracial faction, then I don't want to play as Gorn or Nausicaans or Orions or whoever else!)

    The Klingons going to war with the Federation... Why exactly? And yes, its an all out war - but even if it was only a cold war situation, that would seem stupid to me - what is this, TOS? Ever since the Khitomer Accords, the Klingons have been grudging allies of the Federation - sure, there were a few bumps, like the Klingon Civil War in TNG, and season 4/5 of DS9 (which was due to Changeling infiltration) - but in the end of both of those examples, the Klingons were allied with the Federation once again. The Klingons being at war with the Federation just feels so... unnecessary to me. Why not make a new big bad enemy that both the Feds and the Klingons can fight? Do we really need PvP between all the factions?!

    And I was surprised to see Species 8472 in the video - when it first mentioned 'Changeling infiltrators' I didn't make the connection. Then when I saw them I was like 'wait... what?!' I remember the episode from Voyager where they had plans to infiltrate Earth... but I distinctly remember Janeway convincing 'Boothsby' that the Federation was peaceful.

    IF they were going to bring in 8472, which I don't mind - they were pretty cool - then I'd rather they come in guns blazing. Changeling infiltrators, as you said, has been done before - copying DS9 doesn't seem like a particularly brilliant or inventive move.

    And besides, it really bothered me that the Klingons found out 8472 was behind the Gorn's aggression... but then they went on to attack the Federation anyway...
     
  13. acappellasaurus

    acappellasaurus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry to divert the thread from the storyline topic, but really quick, can anyone tell me if my laptop can play this game? I have a Dell XPS M1530, Intel Core 2 Duo.
     
  14. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Its not out yet, so we don't know the minimum requirements. :)
     
  15. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Orions actually have allied with the Klingons. Which I originally though was what the Gorn and Nausicaans were going to do, kind of their version of the novel's Typhon Pact. I don't have a problem with the Klingons conquering those races. The Klingons are meant to be an aggressive war-like race so now we get to seem them doing that.

    I don't think its a stretch for them to be at war, I simply thought that when the game kicked off it the two sides were just going to be antagonistic. Probably more info I've retained from the old studio.

    Look at the history of the Klingons and the Federation. They seem to go through cycles. The mid to late 23rd century both sides are hostile to each other and even go to war for a very brief period. A peace is settled before the turn of the century, that peace has all but gone by around the 2330s and would be gone if the Enterprise-C hadn't fluked into a battle and got spanked by the Romulans over a Klingon world. We see if that didn't happen the Klingons and Federation would have gone to war.

    Fast forward another 30 years and the Federation again intervenes and places a more Federation friendly Chancellor (or at least a very anti-Romulan Chancellor) in power. If they had left the Klingons to work it out it was likely Duras would have won and the Klingons and Federation relationship probably would have soured and maybe gone to war again.

    Even with a semi-pro-Federation Chancellor the Klingons nature once again pushes for them to be more aggressively expansive after seemingly decades of peace and the Founders exploit this, just as they exploited the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar's natures and crushed them. Federation interference in a Klingon war sours the relationship and the two clash over old grudges.

    The Dominion threat manages to unite them again for a while and what does the Federation do? They interfere and help promote another seemingly pro-Federation person to be Chancellor. The question is while Martok seems to be a more sensible Chancellor, in line with say Gorkon, he is still a Klingon warrior and playing second fiddle to the Federation probably will grate.

    Fast forward another 30 years. The Romulans are crumbling and the Klingons take advantage. The Federation is again stepping in where it isn't wanted and the Klingon don't like that. Pro-Federation or not Martok would consider a war of conquest against the Romulans to be none of the Federations business. Probably give them the old "galaxy would be safer with Romulus under Klingon control."

    It's the Species 8472 jumping in that I don't like. Partly because I don't like them and because it isn't all that necessary. The Gorn and Nausicaans could naturally go to war against the Klingons because they fear they were next after Romulus (much as Federation worlds on the Klingon border were advocating a pre-emptive strike against the Klingons following the Klingon invasion of Cardassia). Also given the Klingons commitment to taking on the Romulans, they would look like a vulnerable target.

    If they really had to have an 'alien conspiracy' they should have used the conspiracy aliens from TNG. They have already gone the pick and choose route with the non-canon timeline, they could easily ignore the Trill-parasite connection of the DS9 relaunch and have them as some sort of vanguard for a new and original enemy.

    I agree with that...sort of. Three 8472 guys attack one Klingon and they lose...what the hell? We saw one tearing up the Borg with no problems, another spent months on the run with no weapons or help from two Hirogen hunters. Yet three can't ambush with one Klingon politician...

    As for attacking the Federation. They were already on poor terms by the time the Klingon-Gorn war ended. The Federation is not only defending itself but it has taken up defending the remnants of the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassian Union, so the Klingons are seeing their old territory and saying, "now we can take it back."
     
  16. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Two things -

    Firstly, I don't have a problem with the Klingons conquering other races, its those races showing up as crew on the Klingon ships which I have a problem with! Of course the Klingons are going to conquer other races, presumably they've continued doing that all this time, yet we never see any of these subject races on the show. So seeing them now, in the form of the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions, feels forced and goes against what we've seen before (in a way which I personally don't like, maybe others do, and I can respect that).

    Secondly, the reason I don't like the Klingons conquering the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions in particular, is because that means we have less races to become factions in the future. Shoving minor races into a bigger faction just doesn't seem right to me - the Federation is supposed to be made up of a lot of races, the other factions aren't. Making a faction such as 'pirates', which then included races like the Nausicaans and the Orions, would make more sense than lumping them all with the Klingons.

    The 'big races' who've been established in the show, such as the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, and Borg (the latter two groups, I don't think should be playable) and to some extent the Ferengi, should all be their own factions. If they were putting minor races like the Tholians, Gorn and Breen together (ala the Typhon Pact) then I'd have no problem with it.

    But again, this is all just the way I feel about it, and I can understand why other people don't have a problem with it.

    Hmmmm, okay, I can concede that perhaps the Klingons being at war with the Federation does have precedence in the past...

    As I said, the main reason I don't like it is because I like the events of Destiny and the Typhon Pact more, and wish they'd followed that instead of the story they've come up with.

    Especially because the Klingons warring with the Federation has been done so often in the series! For the same reason, I'm glad the Borg were wiped out in Destiny, and I really hope the Dominion doesn't come into STO - they've all been done, and done fairly well (except the Borg, who became jokes in Voyager), in the TV series. After watching them all, I'm ready for some new enemies - or at least an exploration of the enemies we don't know much about, like the Romulans, Breen, Gorn and Tholians.

    But again, I completely understand why other people feel differently.

    As for the Conspiracy aliens. On the STO forums, we had various discussions about who the 'ancient threat' described in the story might be, and the most popular choice was usually the Conspiracy aliens... so they still might show up.
     
  17. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Captain Captain

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    Species 8472 actually helps put the Klingons in a more sympathetic light, every action taken is because they've either tried to infiltrate the empire or have used other factions to attack them.

    It should be noted that the Federation itself has also been infiltrated by Species 8472, one of the early missions has you escorting a Federation ambassador to P'Jem who turns out to be one, his exposure is caused by the Klingons trying to stop your Starfleet ship from delivering him to the planet's surface.

    Every action taken against the Klingons up to this point by the Federation could easily have been instigated by Species 8472, no wonder the Klingons are paranoid, they have every right to be.
     
  18. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ It won't be a surprise that I dislike the notion of putting the Klingons in a more sympathetic light.
     
  19. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Captain Captain

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    Well that's not to say that what they're doing is exactly right, it just isn't a clear good or bad thing. They're acting the way Klingon's would act against a threat, by punching it in the face. That doesn't mean it's the best way to deal with the problem just a Klingon way of dealing with it :)
     
  20. Peter the Younger

    Peter the Younger Commodore Commodore

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    When STO was announced, one of the first thing I thought was how the Klingons could be used to channel hardcore PVPer behavior into something that fits within the world of the game. Klingons seem like born PVPers to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
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