Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

Discussion in 'Trek Gaming' started by daedalus5, Sep 3, 2011.

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  1. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes. Got timeout errors while in game and now can't even start the client.
    They are aware of the problem and try to fix it. It's not STO specific, Champions seems to have the same problem.

    In other news:

    Season 7 pre-patch is up and Omega Conversion is available on Tribble now.
     
  2. LeadHead

    LeadHead Director of Comedy Premium Member

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    Thanks Timelord Victorious, glad to know it isn't just me.
     
  3. Bird of Prey

    Bird of Prey Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Glad to know it's not just me either. Hopefully they will get it back up soon.
     
  4. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    So how 'bout them conversion rates?
     
  5. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok, here is my (unfortunately incomplete) results of the conversion.

    Character 1: 5 EDC -> 500 Omega Marks, 3 Borg Neural Processors

    Character 2 (starting value unknown, but it wasn't that much more than character 1): 1000 OM, 5 BNP

    Character 3 (starting value unknown, but it wasn't much less than character 4): 2500 OM, 11 BNP, 3000 Dilithium Ore

    Character 4: 173 EDC, 5 Proto Techs, 4 Rare Techs, 10 Proto Salvage, 20 Rare Salvage -> 3000 OM, 13 BNP, 4000 Dilithium Ore


    Now compare what a typical Elite STF run results in:

    Before the Conversion: 2 EDC
    After the Conversion: 60 OM + 1 BNP

    That doesn't take into account the occasional EDC drops from mobs, the occasional rare or proto salvages from Optionals and boss loot and the rare tech drops from boss loot under the old system.

    The cheapest item you can get under the old system is a retro set piece Borg item for 5 EDCs.
    The most expensive item you can get is a veteran MACO/Omega set piece item for 40 EDC=1 rare tech piece

    There is no EDC value attached to Elite gear but it's clearly worth more than 40 EDC. If there were it would most likely be at least 80 EDC.

    So presumably 40 runs of Elite STF to get a Elite Set piece if there were an EDC value to it. -> 80 EDC = 1 Proto Tech

    I still have to do some math to figure out by how much Cryptic screwed me out of buing value here, but I think it is considerable.

    Edit: With those values and presumably 40 runs for a Elite Set piece I can compare it to 40 runs under the new system -> 2400 Omega Marks, 40 Borg Neural Processors = 1 Proto Tech
    Which I clearly don't get from the conversion, converting proto tech is definitely not worth it.

    Or I could turn 1 Proto Tech into 2000 Dilithium Ore under the old system or my entirey stuff into 77,856 Dilithium ore.

    Tech drops don't seem to count for much if anything at all in the conversion

    ok, those tech drops and salvages are the Bonus, maybe I shouldn't take tose into account at all and consider them a bonus similar to Borg Neural processors. let's say I get roughly 1 salvage/tech drop in 3 runs, that about fits my number of them compared to my EDC.


    My 173 EDCs equal 86 ESTFs -> 5160 Omega Marks + 86 Borg Neural Processors

    Edit: I took the dilithium out of the equation, because I already got dilithium for those runs and don't want to double dip with the conversion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  6. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    It converts VERY badly. And it's not even a percentage thing. They've had people showing that they convert and get a number. Then convert again with way less EDC/salvage, and get the exact same number.

    Pretty much keep a little bit on hand to get something, I guess, but they're essentially completely screwing us again. It's not comparable, or fair value, they're in many circumstances just outright taking them away. Unless it changes soon, I'll just be cashing in most of my stock for DIL, or will vendor more sets of Retro Borg gear for EC...

    I'd be pissed, but seems pretty par for the course here. :shrug:
     
  7. Haggis and tatties

    Haggis and tatties Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So basically its better to convert all our stuff to dilth before the conversion....or am i reading it wrong......not really up to scratch with the whole numbers side of STO.
     
  8. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    best value would be getting any gear pieces you still want if possible. Even if you convert into dilithium, it will still be ore, so only woth something if you don't hit your cap every day anyway.
     
  9. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    at least that way, you get something for it, even if it takes a little while to convert it all.

    Go earn another 10 EDC and rerun your conversion. Bet you'll have the same amount in the new system. The forum hasn't mapped it out enough to find the break points, but there are definitely categories where 1-10 = 1 amount, 11-20 = another amount, and so on. They've found spots where there's NO change from turning in, say 50 EDC or 100. Same exact value in new system. So once we feel out the limits better, you'll know what the most you should really keep is.

    Real question, as always, is WHY. Why fuck over the players for no particular reason? Again. Don't want to flood the market, fine. But even if it's reduced returns, why isn't everything you turn in worth something? Worked to earn it, should have some value. Why is a Proto Tech worth a set piece now, but in the conversion, it's worth like a 10th of one? Aren't they the same thing?

    I can at least see why they didn't want to publish this. It's not even a ratio, it's a flat-out Fuck You.
     
  10. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    people on the STO forum are already doing spreadsheets and everything. So far they have estimated that there are about 19-20 tiers of Omega boxes.

    With diminishing returns on higher tiers I think and bigger input requirements for each next tier.

    What we lose the most is buying power for Elite gear because not much gets converted into Borg Neural Processors.
     
  11. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    I've done some quick number crunching and here are some of my conclusions:

    Overall, the conversion box is designed to give players bonus in Omega Marks, not Borg Neural Processors. In fact, the number of Borg Neural Processors is capped at a maximum of 15.

    As many have noticed, there are about 15 conversion tiers.

    Tiers 1-4 seem aimed at players who run normal (non-elite) STFs. Specifically, only in tiers 1-4 are Rare Salvage factored into the conversion calculations. From Tier 5 and beyond, all my regressions indicate Rare Salvage are either given somewhere between 0 to 10% weightage in tier calculation.

    The little bit of good news is that at lower tiers, the EDC/salvage to Omega Marks conversion ratio is very good. At tier 1, you are getting 12.5 normal STFs worth of Omega Marks in exchange for 1-10 EDCs. The bad news is that bonus quickly becomes a conversion penalty at around Tier 5-6 where you loose out on a significant number of Borg Neural Processors and dilithium.

    There is some indication that the STF accolades and/or number of STF runs play a factor into the quality of the box you get, especially at lower tiers. So even if you only have 1 EDC, it is very possible to get a tier 2 or perhaps even tier 3 box if you have > 40 of STF runs and a few MACO/Omega Force/Honor Guard accolades.

    My conclusion is this, try to aim for either the tier 3 or tier 4 box for the optimum conversion rate. If you have a few STF accolades and around 15 EDCs, you should be able to get the tier 3 box which contains 1000 Omega Marks and 5 Borg Neural Processors. If you have around 20-40 EDCs, 10 Rare Borg Salvage and 10 Prototype Salvage, you should be able to get 1500 Omega Marks, 7 Borg Neural Processors and 1000 dilithium.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  12. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To compare what your box is actually worth:

     
  13. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    I had lowly expectations of:

    40 x EDCs -> 1000 Omega Marks
    4-5 x Rare Salvage -> 1 Borg Neural Processor
    2 x Prototype Salvage -> 1 Borg Neural Processor
    + diminishing returns when you convert anything more than 40 EDCs or 10 Prototype Salvage.

    So I was pretty pleased that my estimates were in the right ball-park and that my decision to cash in most of my STF stuff for dilithium was correct.
     
  14. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Slight update. The increased the amount of BNPs in each crate to double size since the last patch.
     
  15. syberghost

    syberghost Commander Red Shirt

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    Nobody should be shocked that if you walk into this system with enough stockpiled to outfit every character you could ever possibly have with full gear, you will not walk out of it in that same state. People not having a reason to play anymore is part of what they were trying to fix. The minute they announced a conversion was coming, you *KNEW* it was not going to be "one for one"; deflation of the currency was inevitable.

    The only question was whether you'd benefit more by losing your surplus but getting enough new currency to outfit who you need to outfit, or by selling/cashing in your surplus before the conversion. That you'd lose quantity in the conversion was implicit.
     
  16. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    To be fair, it is also clear from comments over the past month that everyone here expected a loss in the conversion process.

    The fact that people are commenting about the degree of loss now indicates many of us didn't expect this much of a loss in the conversion process. Even I myself feel that the conversion rate is *extremely* low. And honestly, what else is there to play at end-game? Cryptic's worry about players not having a reason to play STFs under the new reputation system is totally unfounded. In fact, my belief is that a better conversion rate would actually incentivize players to play more as players will feel they have gained a significant leg up towards getting those new Mk XII items. Having such a low conversion rate is in fact very demoralizing to the playerbase. I have heard several regular players saying they are seriously considering not playing STO anymore due to feeling like their past STF achievements have been tossed out the window.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  17. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Iconverted my stuff into dilithium now, well most of it. Still got a shot at a ground and a space set with only one missign piece each for a shuttle and a boff.

    After the launch I will just play my STFs like always and get enough marks and BNPs to pretty much start new projects the moment the old one comes of cooldown.

    I saved up enough dilithium and EC to fill up everything almost instantly. So the only thing keeping me from reaching T5 is the time gate.

    I don't even have to grind dilithium ore for two weeks now.

    Everything I make in addition can go to starbase/embassy.
     
  18. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, obviously not going to be a 1 for 1. But when I tested my conversion, i traded in (roughly):

    60 Rare Salvage
    60 Proto Salvage
    300 EDC
    10 Rare Tech
    5 Proto Tech

    Turns out that's enough now for about 1.5 set pieces. Kinda looks like I've got enough for 15 set pieces, full Mk XII weapon loadout of every rainbow color for all my ships, and 20 full Retro Borg 3-piece sets.

    Doesn't QUITE translate to even ballpark value, does it? Seems like a little more buying power now, when it'll get me 1.5 space pieces or 2 ground pieces after.

    Oh, and then gotta grind out another couple hundred of these things to get back to the point where i can buy a piece even if I WAS given the goods to buy it with. They doubled the trade-in value and it still doesn't seem fair. Not sure how you can really defend another POV on that issue...

    Now i just gotta pull up the spreadsheet, find a good jumping off point, and trash the rest for DIL. And then decide whether to bother grinding more STFs in the first place. At least my main toon has both sets of ground and space, and the BOFFs have my old Mk XI gear sets, so really don't need more there. My alts are another sad story, but just not sure I can stomach grinding this system from scratch multiple times. Would be nice if there was a 'fast track' for your alts, so if you maxed the system on one character, the next one can move through faster. Frustrating as hell having my main toon all geared out, and when I started focusing on another alt (KDF), I don't even have enough to get the remodulator, so I gotta run Elite STFs with the damned 5-second remodulation. More than enough chips/tech on the other toon, can't even spend it, and no way to help out my other ones...
     
  19. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    Basically convert all Rare and Prototype Borg Salvage into dilithium, keep either 10 or 30 EDCs for conversion.

    With 10 EDCs, you get 1000 Omega Marks and 5 Borg Neural Processors, or...
    With 30 EDCs, you get 1500 Omega Marks, 7 Borg Neural Processors and 1000 dilithium
     
  20. syberghost

    syberghost Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly. That was the goal.

    If this new system launched and everybody just turned around and bought gear, there'd be no point to a new system.
     
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