Star Trek Maps (1980)

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Darkwing, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Has anyone seen a cleaned up version with all the spacelanes and other stuff not cluttering the maps? Pre-production versions, photoshop cleanups, anything? I'm talking about the Mandel ST Maps from 1980, not the later Star Charts.
     
  2. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope, just the published version. Considering these were done before computers were handy, someone would probably have to scan them and do the clean-up that way. that'd be a lot of work, I think.
     
  3. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, but it"s worth asking, even if I expect the answer to be "no".
     
  4. wildstar

    wildstar Commander Red Shirt

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    I just did a test by doing a "replace color" in photoshop and bringing down their saturation and lightness. But of course they didn't totally disappear. I'd think the best way would be to select all of the planets and names, copy and paste them at once on top of a starry background or something.
     
  5. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe someone will do a fan attempt.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    All the co-ordinates are in the accompanying booklet. Perhaps someone could recreate it in 3D, add in the planets from Worlds of the Federation...
     
  7. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    I'm kind of trying to do that. FASA's map seems to be slightly scrambled 1/3 scale version of ST Maps. I just upgraded to paint.net, and am learning it. I'm trying to copy maps into a black & white map, add in the FASA worlds not already on it, move the Tholians near the Klingons because of the Vanguard novels, and add in various stuff from the novels.

    The FJ Tech Manual Map has the UFP as 7 parsec radius, with a 4750PC treaty exploration zone, and the Klingons & Romulans rimward. ST Maps is 240PC, Klingons & Romulans rimward, Gorn & Tholians trailing. The Pleiades & Taurus dark cloud are inside the UFP treaty zone. FASA shrank that to about 80PC, so those stellar objects would be on the other side of Klingon space. Star Charts rotated the adversaries to trailing, and the UFP is about 100 light year radius at that point, with the Pleiades and Taurus cloud over 100LY outside UFP space in the TNG era.
     
  8. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, just the coordinates for the major worlds mentioned in the series. there a re a lot more systems on the actualy maps that are not listed in the booklet.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    For what it's worth, although the coordinates/positionings for real stars in ST Maps seem to have been based on real-life data, our estimates of stellar distances back in 1980 were a lot less accurate than they are today, after the HIPPARCOS and other surveys. So a lot of the star placements from STM are just plain wrong.
     
  10. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, but it's the best I've seen so far. And once I copy the maps into the easier to read version, it'l be a smaller file size. It'll also be easier to rearrange as I get better data. I just dowloaded some pdn plugins, so hopefully I can start getting range and bearings for real stars to adjust positions.
    Any suggestions on good sites for that that don't require sorting through a MEGO wall o text to find positions?
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Not sure how STM can be the best you've seen when Star Charts was based on the more up-to-date Hipparcos data.


    This site merges real star data and Star Charts info pretty well:

    http://www.whitten.org/starmap/

    And of course there's the actual Hipparcos catalog itself:

    http://www.rssd.esa.int/index.php?project=HIPPARCOS&page=hipsearch
     
  12. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  13. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Star Charts makes much less sense with regard to positions of the fictional polities. STM works better for that, except for the Tholians. Thanks for the links, I'll look @ them when I get to a real computer.
     
  14. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Especially where the Klingon and romulan involvement with the Dominion War and Deep Space Nine is concerned. It's all the freakin' way on the other side of the Federation from where Star Charts shows them to be. Makes no sense, even if you try to rationialize it by saying that Klingon abd Romulan teritory "wraps around" Fed space "above" or "blow" the 2-D plane shown on the Star Charts maps. That would add a lot or territory to either of those entities, but yet every single place ever mentioned on-screen is shown all the freakin' way on the other side of the UFP from Bajor/DSN/The War.
     
  15. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    I'm trying to make a map that makes sense to me for use in my fan-fic and for the next time I run an rpg in the Trek verse. So I want to include certain novels, the Triangle, and some of the other non>anon material. I assume the UFP has a core, actual border, and a treaty exploration zone that has nodes of colonies, trust worlds set aside for worlds not yet in space, and unexplored space. For Kirk's era, that should be a rough sphere, impinged by existing claims of other stellar nations. By TNG+, that probably expanded in a lopsided fashion like Star Charts shows, but I'm pretty sure the Rihannsu novels are closer to STM than SC, so i'd still want to rotate the map orientation back to that shown in most of the sources I mentioned above.
     
  16. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I'm thinking about putting Bajor/DS9/Cardassia around 10 o'clock on STM (between Vedala space and the former Slaver Empire), and a ways outside the treaty zone. Anyone know what date the UFP made contact with Bajor or Cardassia?
    From the unused script for ST:V, IIRC, Chekov was losing at chess to a Betazoid, so it's reasonable they were known, if not members, in the 2280's. Anyone know anything like that for other TNG/DS9 races?
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Except that STSC uses a "small Federation" theory (pretty much necessitated by later DS9, which established that Bajor, beyond the Federation border, was only days' travel from Earth). So the core of the UFP is only a couple of hundred light years across, meaning that "all the freakin' way" isn't really that far.

    Besides, many nations throughout history have waged war very far from home. Places like Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq are all quite far from the US, oceans away, but Americans still fought extended wars there. So I don't see why it should be a problem that Klingons and Romulans are able to wage war at a considerable distance from their home territories.
     
  18. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    /\ true. One of the issues I'm struggling with is the idea of the Romulans being so far from Terra, yet having a war with them in a warp 4 era. In the TM, that's nearly 5k parsecs! In FASA, 80pc, in Maps 240pc, in SC, 100 light years. If I go with the spherical treaty zone, and push them in to the 100ly point, I have to do the same with the Klingons in order to preserve the Triangle, and suddenly a lot of other real estate changes hands. The Orion worlds are now in the middle of Klingon space, which is problematic. I don't want to introduce wormholes too frequently, so maybe a chi factor warp superhighway lane through Edoan space to the RNZ?
    That, of course, should rearrange colony locations in quadrant 3, so it gets thorny.
     
  19. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    On the large vs. Small theory, I have a printout from some web page that discussed that, and came up with the compromise of a large claimed area, with a series of nodes of heavily colonized areas. SC would easily cover that, STM allows it, and the Organian treaty would indicate that the KNZ is merely acknowledged Klingon territory, whereas the treaty forces the UFP to compete with them for worlds in Q2 that would have been strictly the UFP's under the previous treaty delineating the exploration zone.
     
  20. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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