Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Shaka Zulu, Jun 6, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Europa
    You completely ignore that all our Starfleet heroes needed to be "saved" by Khan.

    No. She put him in a position from where it was possible for him to overcome Khan.

    You also ignore the fact that Dr. Marcus saved Dr. McCoy's life.
     
  2. The Naughty List

    The Naughty List Working the Pole Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Locutus of Bored
    Also the fact that Uhura saved Kirk's life by beaming down and convincing Spock not to kill Khan, a fact which McCoy made sure to note when Kirk awoke.
     
  3. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Location:
    Where It's At.
    No, that's what "cohorts" means. I think you're ignoring my point, but that's okay.

    I said she "helped." I also said it fell flat and stand by that.

    And Dr. Marcus. She put him in that position in the first place and her "saving" him came off more as dumb luck than the skill of an intelligent scientist. I suspect that's because they played it for laughs, imo.

    It was interesting to find from another thread that Nichele Nichols not knowing Klingon (in TUC?) was also an incompetence written and displayed for laughs, even though, from what I read, she and Leonard Nimoy objected because it didn't make sense for the Communications Officer at the time not to be fully in control of the Klingon language. It is what it is...
     
  4. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Europa
    Her language skills didn't help them.
    Kirk's skills at the helm of the shuttle didn't help them.

    Had Uhura not beamed down Spock would have died. Her actions didn't fall flat.

    You know what?
    Your whole attitude is sexist. You put the sex and gender of the characters before anything else.
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    And you've crossed the line by making it about the poster and not the post.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    See this I don't get at all. Spock was getting his ass kicked and his head crushed from a relentless pounding machine of a eugenics superman. The phaser fire did not drop Khan but it did require that he righted himself with each hit.

    BAM.. Khan stumbles backwards and then lunges towards her..

    BAM.. Khan stumbles backwards and then lunges towards her..

    Repeat several times. His head was thrown back and he was needing a moment to refocus and steady himself with each hit. This gave Spock what he needed, breathing space and thinking space and he was able to grab a weapon (prior to this he only had his fists) and smash Khan's head, knock him down and gain the upper hand. No doubt being stunned so many times made Khan less able to fight back.

    And you know Uhura could have been the one that beamed down and fired the phaser on kill and won the day, but the story needed Khan alive. That was the only thing that stopped her from being the one who did in the bad guy on that platform.

    They worked together and they both took Khan out. Nothing flat there. One thing the scene shows us is just how powerful Khan is and I've said before no one person is ever going to take him out in a fight.
     
  7. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Location:
    Europa
    Exactly.
     
  8. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Location:
    European Union
    No, he hasn't. He would have crossed the line if he had insulted her which he hasn't. However, I recommend returning to the topic at hand which has already happened.

    And please don't mini-mod, Maurice. If you think a post crosses the line use the notify button instead.
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    That was an opinion, not a mod-attempt.
     
  10. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    CommishSleer
    There aren't many scenes in ST09 or STID without Kirk, Spock or McCoy in it. Come to think of it there aren't many scenes in TOS without Kirk, Spock or McCoy in it.
    Its hard to sneak in a woman to woman scene in there without the main leads
     
  11. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Even though I bang on about wanting more women and in general prefer women characters I give Star Trek a pass on the male main leads. That is just TOS for you. Kirk and Spock were a duo the way Picard and Riker never were, chemistry and writing just made some magic with those two. I think JJ is doing some stuff towards putting more women into the supporting characters and I also think he could have made a much bigger effort in this film. Yes there are 5 (?) women at the table when the special meeting is called (someone posted a pic with them numbered, might be more). But they are still a distinct minority. And when Kirk and Spock run up to talk to Marcus about Khan being on Chronos he is having a meeting with about 7 other people he dismisses. All of those people are men. That's just silly. How hard would it be to make half of them women? I look at this and think, didn't JJ notice?

    So he has a way to go just visually IMO. But I'm totally cool with this being the Kirk and Spock show, that's what I'm here for.
     
  12. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Location:
    Bulawayo Military Krral
    Overweight people aren't allowed in the military to begin with (you have to keep your weight at a certain level or you get dismissed.) That's why you don't see a lot of fat people on any Star Trek TV show or in any movie besides Shatner and Doohan.

    For the record, the few times I've seen the two new Star Trek movies, I've seen a ton of older people as admirals and commodores, and this was also so on Star Trek TNG (I remember the producers saying that when they cast admirals and commodores, all of them were middle-aged or older than middle aged actors, male and female).

    Add to which, if Khan had taken her on solely, her head would have been crushed just like Admiral Marcus's was. Also, Spock, being stronger than a human being anyway, was the only one to take on Khan at that moment (what everybody forgot about when criticizing this scene.)
     
  13. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Location:
    California
    personally this bechdel test can go fornicate with itself.
     
  14. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    It's not why I disagree with you, but whatever. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    CommishSleer
    I agree.

    I don't want to waste time on irrelevant characters women or otherwise, but there might be room/time for a strong woman enemy co-worker who isn't anybody's girlfriend.

    nuBSG was derived from a similar virtually all male series of BSG. The way they change the dynamic was having some of the leads change gender. They didn't choose to do this with nuTrek so they sort of have to live with male dominance to some extent.
     
  16. KittyDuran

    KittyDuran Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Location:
    Hungry (like the wolf)
    In the special meeting at Daystrom there were Admirals, Captains and First Officers - also, some of them either died or where injured (including one woman in the leg) when Khan attacked - the officers in the special meeting with Marcus when Kirk and Spock interrupt might be some of the survivors or replacements (but just happen to be all men). Also, at the time, before Kirk and Spock inform Marcus that Khan is on Kronos, it was believed that Khan was still either on Earth or in federation space - maybe Marcus was having more than one meeting with officers of different regions.
     
  17. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    CommishSleer
    I get the impression that Marcus' interrupted meeting was with the upper echelons which were all male. Perhaps JJ doesn't want to show older ladies on screen but maybe older men are acceptable.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    It doesn't matter if they were the upper echelons or the cleaning staff. Making them all male is ridiculous and just dumb on JJ's part.
     
  19. KittyDuran

    KittyDuran Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Location:
    Hungry (like the wolf)
    At the ceremony at the end of the movie - IIRC there was a good representation on the podium with Kirk (still don't like the short skirts - but that's because I never looked good in them when I was younger).
     
  20. KittyDuran

    KittyDuran Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Location:
    Hungry (like the wolf)
    Or maybe JJ wants to show us that Marcus is really just a male chauvinist when the chips are down? :shrug: (I know, I'm reaching!)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.