Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Shaka Zulu, Jun 6, 2013.

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  1. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Watched three episodes of Defiance and wanted to scoop my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon.
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought he mistook another woman for Gaila. (Yeah, I know, not much of an improvement.)
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I enjoy it being chockers with aliens. Really haven't seen that in anything for a long time. Someone tell me anything recent with lots of real aliens in it (not monster of the week).
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah you're right. I think there could have been an implied "all Orions look alike" deal there which makes me even more happy it was deleted.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Falling Skies has upped their ante to three aliens.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :: makes a little note ::

    DO they look alien? Or are they humans who are actually aliens?
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, two of the three are CGI and one is an actor in heavy make up.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Okay that is on my list already, perhaps I'll bump it up. Thanks.
     
  9. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's both, actually. Some kind of experiment they're running by having the video game run in parallel to the TV show like a multimedia MMORPG. I've been keeping silent on it so far because I think the video game sucks and the show sucks even harder but it's acquired a surprisingly large following in a short time; the last time this happened was Stargate SG-1, and I am in no mood right now to be drawn into another lengthy rhetorical battle with people who don't know the difference between science fiction and war porn with soap opera subplots (e.g. Stargate Atlantis).

    I've forced myself through three episodes of Defiant so far; I'm done. Been burned one too many times by one too many overzealous recommendations to watch any more. Could be that I'm jaded, or it could be that I'm cynical, but by the midpoint of a Defiance episode I feel as if I'm pretending to be stupider than I am just to keep from changing the channel.
     
  10. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes the men never go the full monty or there's some strategically placed towel, computer etc.

    Here's some of mine ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    That was too much for even me I'm afraid.

    I just look straight into Decker's eyes, frankly at everyone's eyes in TMP (except maybe a peek at Spock)
     
  11. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    No. It definitely isn't. Neither is any of the "Stargate" series.

    I have tried to get into B5 many, many times. Its characters are not appealing to me, its political episodes reminded me of the political episodes of DS9. Disliked them too.

    The B5 sets were uninteresting and elements (esp. those damn distinctive window/grates) were borrowed from the same rental company as TNG. Londo's hair was an embarrassment and his species felt very "meh" to me. Delenn's alien makeup was bizarre. When she began to look more human, how did she train her long hair to grow through her bony cranial ridges?

    I did like Walter Koenig's character, but I was already biased.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk Prime was a softy.

    Re: "Defiance":
    Whew. I thought I'd interpreted the posters correctly. It sounded like a video game to me.

    "Stargate"? Bleh.
     
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's interesting. But it should come as no surprise that people argue from different perspectives because we actually like different things.

    However, doyou accept that it is a franchise that has more gender balance?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  14. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just wanted to comment on this because it is largely hyperbole but it touches on a valid point.

    Obviously nobody thinks STiD is particularly sexist, although it could do better. The underwear shot was gratuitous and therefore some view it as sexist. The reality is that sex sells and it was there as a blatant attempt to flash some skin even though it was irrelevant to the wider plot. Movie makers are going to do this because generally it works. The numbers don't lie.

    I think some people have struggled to understand why I think have large numbers of wives, daughters, and prostitutes in GoT is preferable to having two professional women in STiD. Some setting, by their nature have a gender divide. That does not mean they are sexist and if they are, it may be legitimate. I don't mind if a franchise is sexist for a reason BUT I would still prefer to see a lot of women in the roles available to them. Whether the production is sexist will then depend on whether the entire focus is on the men or whether the women are developed as characters. Others, such as army movies, may have very few women at all.

    The debate is whether STiD should be in a sexist setting. TOS was sexist and Enterprise stuck with the official gender divide for the sake of canon, although it was abandoned by TMP.

    So the question is whether STiD should use the Butterfly Effect to wipe away the gender divide and use women more often in its supporting cast. I think it should and others are not bothered. It is a question of personal taste as to whether you are bothered but it touches on the known sexism in the industry because the gender divide has ben industry wide for a long time, with a few exceptions.

    That seems to be it in a nutshell?
     
  15. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Funny thing, opinions, hers is equally valid. One difference, though, I agree with teacake's.
     
  16. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really? Vastly superior? I'm not arguing an opinion, I'm just surprised.
     
  17. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    The focus in a Star Trek film will always be on the two male leads (Kirk and Spock).
     
  18. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    As a story, yes. B5 was produced as a continuous narrative which none of the other Trek series were. I found that far more satisfying than Trek, especially the TNG era shows. B5, Farscape, Stargate, all have been more entertaining to me. JJ's films have brought back the fun which I associate with TOS and found very absent from TNG Trek.
     
  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My perspective is a little different on this. I regarded TOS, TNG and ENT as sexist and the TOS/TNG movies to some extent carried this on if you want to look at it from a strict feminist perspective. Not more sexist than the equivalent series/movies made at the same time though.

    Even if you include VOY and DS9 I can only think of one human woman who ever took over the command position (even temporarily) on the series' ship/space station - Janeway.
    Except maybe Shelby did in TNG and I'm not counting Troi's and Crusher's one off play at command.

    Even in DS9, the human women were wives and mothers
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, but what does that matter if it isn't very good? But it's also a TV series not a two-hour movie, it is new and not based on previous material and it didn't have seven core characters it had to service

    It's an apples and pork chops comparison.
     
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