Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Shaka Zulu, Jun 6, 2013.

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  1. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For those not familiar with this test developed by cartoonist Allison Bechdel, here's an explanation:

    Star Trek Into Darkness only passed 1 of the 3 tests, and was panned by many of the ladies who use the site that the test is featured at:

    Star Trek Into DarknessBechdel test
     
  2. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    Nurse Christine Chapel was mentioned in a blink-and-you-will-miss-it reference.
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which means zip in regards to the OP. How would a character that is not in the film have a conversation?
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She was mentioned as a past Kirk hookup.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My apologies...I'm still not seeing the point in regards to the original post.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is no point, Chapel has nothing to do with the Bechdel test. I'm just adding that while not on screen she is one woman that Carol Marcus talks about but the point of her is that she is a past hookup of Kirk's.
     
  7. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Maybe Uhura and Marcus get to work together in the next film. It'd be great if they got to "save the day" in some real way in addition to the boys.

    I know, I know, I dare to hope...
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I want a hot woman villain. If she turns out to be the Romulan Commander from The Enterprise Incident so much the better.

    Which man will she seduce away from duty this time? Shall we reverse engineer it again and make it Kirk?
     
  9. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Hmm, a Romulan evil seductress. That doesn't sound too bad.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Bechdel thing was a cute way to make a point. It's past its sell-by.
     
  11. gabby_j

    gabby_j Ensign Newbie

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    Hopefully they will interact in the next one. Of the two women, I feel like they kind of gave the shaft to Carol. I know a lot of people try to spin it like she did something epic in the story or that she played an integral role, but she didn't do much to stand out, besides take her clothes off. Even the media is only focusing on that, not how smart she is. Even when she saved Bones, it wasn't that amazing. Everyone was saving someone at some point.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She was smart and sharp on that torpedo opening planet and Bones was a crabby old coot.
     
  13. gabby_j

    gabby_j Ensign Newbie

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    Ok. But how was that integral to the story?
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The only people integral to the story are Kirk and Spock. Everything else is just fluffy stuff window dressing for Kirk and Spock. That includes Bone's bitching about things, Uhura kissing Spock, Marcus undoing torpedoes, Scotty faffing about..

    It's Kirk and Spock vs their Enemy. And probably will be next movie.
     
  15. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Wrath of Khan...

    Saavik & Uhura.

    2. Fails, so automatically so does 3.
     
  16. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Passing the Bechdel test doesn't make a movie good or feminist friendly, failing it doesn't make it bad, or misogynist. It's a curiosity at most.

    The audience voted with their wallets. They wanted the original cast. Mostly dudes. Women are few and in supporting roles only. If they had a problem with that, they should have supported the spin-offs.
     
  17. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, Saavik and Uhura talk to each other in the very first scene of the movie. And not about a man.
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The fact that people here immediately conflate "villainess" with "seductress" shows exactly why there's merit in topics like this. The assumption is women will use their "wiles" to get what they want, that even as antagonists they're going to use sex to get what they want as opposed to all the ways a male character would.

    I was bothered in both films by the fact that Uhura is defined primarily in terms of her being Spock's girlfriend and he she reacts to his suffering and needs. I'm happy to see the character being given more to do and annoyed that it's doing something so tired and expected.
     
  19. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    Spock had always been defined primarily in terms of him being the nerdy friend of hero (same goes for McCoy), and yet he should be a protagonist as much as Kirk is. hell, you even have Spock prime telling him that Kirk would "define" him. But I don't see people complaining about Spock and McCoy getting reduced to nothing more than the best friends of hero.
    -------

    Uhura and Carol have a tiny interaction, actually.
    When Kirk and Scotty take Carol to sickbay, Uhura is there trying to help her and whispers something to her (maybe she was trying to comfort her)
    tiny but it's there.
     
  20. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    This. And it has been true since the beginning (with TOS). I see no reason whatsoever that the filmmakers, whomever they might be, should be under any obligation to do anything differently. If they want to, fine. Even better if it actually works as entertainment. But as an obligation? No.

    Commercial entertainment is under no obligation to conform to any particular set of characteristics that self-appointed guardians of "the way things ought to be" have deemed necessary. Such entertainment should only try to meet those expectations if it is an organic element of the thing (movie, TV programme, song, painting, sculpture…etc.) they are producing. People are free, of course, to voice their disappointment if the result doesn't meet their expectations. They have no right, however, to expect satisfaction.

    And failing to meet any of those arbitrary sets of standards does not automatically mean that the entertainers hate/don't understand whatever cause they "failed" to properly reflect in their work in a manner sufficient to please the "guardians". That is a specious assumption and does little to advance the cause in question.
     
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