Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.
I think some people are desperate to hate this movie.
That doesn't answer the question. It's based on all the info I've collected. And I'm glad cause I won't pay to see another, IMO, Nemesis.
By your logic, Picard should've allow the Mintakans to skewer Troi and Palmer...
Putting the Prime Directive over the lives of the people under his command is a lesson Prime Kirk never seemed to learn.
It's your loss if you decide to not see it on the big-screen. As much as I hate Insurrection, I still regret not going to see it in the theater.
I don't know what's so hard to understand:
Kirk was born on the Kelvin shuttle and immediately promoted to Lt. Commander.
Sheesh! Why all the hub-bub?
Speaking as another person who hasn't seen the movie, your comparison to Nemesis really proves how little you seem to grasp about the new movie. You're hung up on the whole "heroic death sequence with Chekhov's Gun sitting on the mantle." There's more to both movies than that.
Here's the thing. For all the bad writing in Nemesis, its biggest sin was that it was BORING AS F***. With regards to STID, even its most vocal detractors aren't accusing it of being boring.
Yup. Though I do find that it's aging the best out of the four TNG movie outings.
I'm hung up on how they chose to try and put their own stamp on Khan instead of being original. Then they lift and pervert entire scenes from ST:TWOK.
There are sins in ST productions I cannot forgive. And this is a biggie.
One scene - unless I missed something, it's been a while since I last saw TWOK. Also, it's spelled Khan - your spelling makes me think of a particular unsympathetic football player.
You do realize that it's been thirty-plus years since The Wrath of Khan? To me, revisiting a character thirty-years after he last appeared isn't a crime against humanity or creativity.
I think he means the scene in the warp core which is lifted entirely from TWOK and even recites the same lines but different characters speak them. I was not comfortable with it thats for sure!
First Contact is still my favorite of the TNG films, but the one that I've personally found has aged the most gracefully is actually Generations.
Crazy, I know.
I may not be comfortable with it either. But I'm actually going to see the film before making that determination.
But I think we can all agree that they all have plot-holes big enough to fly the USS Vengeance through...
I agree wholeheartedly with his point regarding quibbles over internal consistency not being mere 'Trekkie nitpicks' but pretty spectacular holes in logic.
I've noticed a trend in this thread with people alluding to the slow and talky Trek of old. It's like, we've changed! We're not that tired, decrepit Trek anymore! We're hip, exciting and energetic now. So let's distance ourselves from the dated and dusty. I just get the vibe we should be so grateful for what we've got, because look at the budget dropped on this monster.
You know, Trek was old and tired. Trek needed a big kick in the posterior. Spock and Kirk chewing up time grating over the minutiae of intergalactic politics wasn't going to cut it. And this latest outing is certainly not that. But one thing this outing also isn't is smart. In fact, it's dumb. It's really dumb. Oh, switch of the logic centers of your brain and you'll be fine, as someone above said. Riiight.
And that's what gets me at the end. It's asking me to dumb myself down for... what, the good of the franchise? To make it more accessible? Is dumb a prerequisite for appealing to the masses? Well, no. A lot of dumb stuff does work for the masses, but often it's unabashedly dumb fluff. Fast and Furious or American Pie works great for me when I want some mindless entertainment. However, Trek was never that (for me, at least).
You'd think there were only two options: the talky and dusty Trek so many are put off by (and not without good reason) or vacuous product now hitting the cinemas. I don't favor either! God, imagine if they'd made an effort to craft a fun, exciting and intelligent spectacle. They had this amazing fictional Universe to play in with all that material to draw from, and the budget to basically do whatever they wanted. A shame the alternative to what we got is only old 'n dusty, right?
Even if the movie is rated 10% on RT Trekkies should go to see it! I remember many a time where I sat down in anticipation of my weekly dose of TV Trek only to be presented with a Ferengi episode or 'Spirit Folk' or 'Shades of Grey*' and so will anyone here over a certain age!
*I didn't see Shades of Grey first run because I am not old enough but I am sure many here did
Its all part and parcel of being a Trekkie!
But getting back to where this all started, Kirk is promoted from cadet to Captain against all common sense, in ST:09. Then demoted at the start of this film cause he's clearly not ready. But at the end of ST:ID, he was again in command. But in everything I've read, no where do I see he understands and accepts what he did was wrong. He simply gets rewarded for saving the day again.
Like I said before, the Prime Directive lesson isn't one that Prime Kirk seemed to learn either.
I'm watching The Man Trap right now.
But Trek has always taken liberties with common sense and logic. It just grates on me when someone acts like Trek was this model series for enlightened people and that J.J. Abrams films are just fluff that shit on Roddenberry's vision.
It was dead. Finished.
Double dumb ass on you. But this is it in a nutshell. Dumb people can enjoy smart films as long as they work on multiple levels. You don't have to get everything out that is in there to enjoy it. Smart people can enjoy dumb films if that's all they are looking for.
Trek's reputation for being smart may have been exaggerated but I certainly would never say that it was a dumb show. These movies have definitely lowered the bar unnecessarily low.
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