Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.
Ah, sorry. I've been dipping in and out of this thread for days - I've obviously missed a chunk...
I saw it again... and I loved it just as much! A wonderful movie. Probably the best Trek of them all.
My one issue last time was that Spock blamed Khan for Kirk's sacrifice, it made no sense to me. Why would Spock yell "Khaaaan!" and go berserker when it was Admiral Marcus' attack that crippled the Enterprise, damaging the warp core and sending them spiralling down to Earth? On my first viewing I'd somehow missed that Khan attacked the defenceless Enterprise after beaming up the missiles and beaming Kirk, Scotty and Carol to the brig. THAT is what damaged the core and what sent Enterprise falling. Now Spock's "Khaaaaan!" and murderous revenge rage made sense.
I suspect in years to come, this will be known as "the one with all the crying" - Kirk cries, like, four times. Pike cries as he's dying, Khan cries in the brig, Uhura cries, Scotty's eyes tear up and even Spock cries. It was very emotional. Even on my second viewing I got a major lump in my throat on several occasions.
There is so much nerdy stuff I can't wait to pour over in October/November when the DVD comes out. I saw Franz Joseph-style Enterprise floorplans on consoles, noticed some new aliens (including another Orion crewperson) and a ton more.
I loved this movie!!
It was a sub-space shockwave, so really it could be anywhere.
My thoughts are that it is probably suppose to be Praxis we are seeing. Nero's incursion, on 75,000 km from the Klingon border, caused them to begin an unprecedented military build-up and caused the Praxis disaster earlier in this timeline.
The old fogey trekkies should be forced to read that review.
People have talked about it, its possible that it could be Praxis but it hasn't exploded yet. That's just the result of mining operations which have gotten out of control, don't forget the Klingons could be even more affected by Nero considering the Narada supposedly destroyed an entire Klingon fleet effortlessly.
I guess, not that it really helps though. It just makes it even more implausible that the Excelsior would be in the exact path of a shockwave that couldn't have been more than a few miles high which originated from lightyears away. All the better is the fact that it snuck right up on them. It'd be like driving a car into a tree... in Antarctica.
Oh please... Nero's incursion as an excuse for everything? So Khan's appearance and heritage changed because of Nero's incursion?
Don't get me wrong, as much as ID is enjoyable as a popcorn flick (it surely is), please do not start with excuses for bad storytelling...
Who cares? That sequence looked awesome. Superb effects (models DO look better) and great editing. Don't start to think it through...
I had a science teacher who said you could point in any direction outside our solar system and your odds of ever hitting anything were something like one in 10 to the 33rd power (10^33).
It's incredible all of the things our crews have "randomly" ran into over the years. Best to just not think about it.
Oh don't get me wrong, I still enjoy that sequence a lot, along with the rest of the film. It really does underscore the fact that JJ-Trek isn't any more implausible than Old-Trek.
Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
That doesn't make it right!
This popped up on Google for me. Despite the title and contents, it's not really *about* Star Trek, but rather it's this unbelievably bitter kneejerk diatribe about how "true geekdom is dead." He simply uses STID and JJ as a sort of focal point for his argument.
I won't ruin it for you guys, but honestly, it has to be seen to be believed. It's just DRIPPING with vitriol and pomposity.
Armond White has a new best friend.
We're not going to be able to convince them. They enjoy the new films and are willing to accept its new creator's vision of Star Trek characters, settings and technology.
It does make attempts to compare nuTrek unfavorably to oldTrek wrong on this score.
Frankly, someone could come along and produce an Oscar-winning Star Trek film that was internationally hailed as a masterpiece and knocked Avatar off to become the most successful film in history...and some trek fans would call it "an okay film but bad Star Trek" because it was different and didn't respect "canon."
(Okay, that's obviously a hypothetical - I don't think anyone could produce an Oscar-caliber Trek movie.)
Well, technically ST09 did win an Oscar.
Ok I've read both the reviews earlier in the thread. The negative one was far too negative Ok I've read both the reviews earlier in the thread. The negative one was far too negative but did make some valid points. The positive one skates over the flaws and enjoyed it for what it was. I'm somewhere in the middle. I enjoyed the movie but, like Trek 2009, it could have been improved considerably in my eyes if they had tweaked some of the sillier moments to have more internal logic.
The main things I agree with are:
"The Klingon homeworld Qo’noS apparently has no sensor defense system. A top secret shipyard building a next generation warship is completely and totally unguarded.
Khan is able to beam himself from Earth to Qo’noS using a personal hyperwarp transporter device. The fact that such a device exists calls into question the need for space ships at all. The device can be carried in your hands, and it can beam you sixteen light years without a problem. The film actually abuses the hell out of the transporter; there’s a reason why the transporter is generally limited in the Star Trek universe*.
A bigger problem moving forward, though, is this: death has been cured at the end of this film. Khan’s blood can revive the deceased.
The good news is that the cast remains the strongest part of the new Star Trek franchise, and they’re probably locked in for another movie."
It's also worth noting that Earth doesn't seem to have any functional defences or active security forces. Marcus could have used the Pre-fix code.
Plus, I'm still not sure I understand what was going on with the bodies in the bombs or why Marcus needed Khan at all. Khan would have been far more interesting if he'd recruited some other mercenaries to commit terrorist acts against the Klingon Empire and the focus became tracking him down (similar to the Enterprise episode with the augments) leading eventually to the Klingon homeworld.
I think I'm holding NuTrek up to the same standards as old Trek but old Trek certainly had its fair share of ludicrous moments. I did have an issue with how silly it was to promote Kirk the jerk so quickly and for no obvious reason other than he got lucky and, you know what, they owned up to it and put a well-received scene in this movie to redress the stupidity of that decision. If the old guard had not pointed out that the emperor had no clothes they might have missed an excellent opportunity to develop the character into something more rounded.
My issue with the Trek tech is that they have opened up a can of worms and they can't really go back so they have to overlook obvious solutions to the problems they create like basic security protocols that we have in the 21st century such as ID to get on board a top secret base, sensors to detect unknown transports, automated alarms, CCTV, automated security systems to block off the ship by sealing doors, cancelling gravity, raising internal force fields etc, or if you are a villain, why be coy, beam intruders back out into space by scanning the area into which they've just beamed (they can beam 72 missiles but not 2 intruders?).
What ever happened to that Kelvan engine mod that could do warp 300, anyway?
And why didn't the Federation figure out how to use those Omicron Ceti spores to cure all disease and injury?
Or all the Cytherian information that was set to change everything for the Federation forever midway through TNG, which they seemed to forget a week later.
These people won't listen. They have what they believe, refuse to listen to anything that goes against it, and fight back using ad hominem attacks on anybody who says otherwise.
Par for the course here.
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